Remote startups will win the war for top talent • Hacker News Board

Re: Remote startups will win the war for top talent

#81

Post by KerrAvon » Tue, Aug 23, 2022, 3:34 PM UTC

teaearlgraycold wrote: post #44

mrkurt wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure productivity maps that directly to revenue. People are wildly productive when they work remotely. What's harder is sharing context and tackling large problems with other people.

I think remote has the biggest issue with onboarding people that can't hit the ground running. I'd hate to be a new grad right now.

IME: This aspect of things has not proven to be a problem in practice; Slack and videoconferencing works well, FWIW. Managers are mainly complaining about forward planning not working as well as pre-pandemic, but they’re unwilling to actually change to fix that problem, which is how you get rigid hybrid plans and not flexibility.

Re: Remote startups will win the war for top talent

#82

Post by weakwire » Tue, Aug 23, 2022, 3:34 PM UTC

lakomen wrote: post #48

weakwire wrote: post #2

Remote startups may win the war for top talent (in the short term) but who will win on productivity and by extension revenue? I guess we will all see that in the next 24 months.

I'm not more productive when monitored and have to waste 2-4 hours a day getting to and from the workplace.

You may not be but the company might be.

Re: Remote startups will win the war for top talent

#83

Post by mbesto » Tue, Aug 23, 2022, 3:34 PM UTC

bearjaws wrote: post #16

I never really understood why people say productivity and socializing is difficult remote. It's difficult because people aren't putting thought into it. At my last big-co job the leadership just kept waiting for 'covid to be over' and not improving our remote work culture. Hybrid models will always struggle and 1/3/1 is going to be probably the best you can do. My company is fully remote, we embraced the GitLab model…

> Hybrid models will always struggle and 1/3/1 is going to be probably the best you can do.

I think you should elaborate on why the hybrid model is a struggle, I personally don't see it as one.

Re: Remote startups will win the war for top talent

#84

Post by wowokay » Tue, Aug 23, 2022, 3:34 PM UTC

rngname22 wrote: post #37

bearjaws wrote: post #16

I never really understood why people say productivity and socializing is difficult remote. It's difficult because people aren't putting thought into it. At my last big-co job the leadership just kept waiting for 'covid to be over' and not improving our remote work culture. Hybrid models will always struggle and 1/3/1 is going to be probably the best you can do. My company is fully remote, we embraced the GitLab model…

Have you considered that those of your view and those espousing that remote is more difficult might have different personalities, levels of need of social interaction, or lifestyles? Have you considered that your company is self-selecting for those who flourish in remote, but that those whose personalities differ are self-selecting for working in an office environment? It's OK for there to not be a one size fits all…

True, I think the rhetoric and The article are focused on killing the negative concepts around remote. To the extreme in pointing out that most of the common tropes are not accurate. The problem is I don’t think anti-remote people understand that in some cases there whole team may want to be remote 100% of the time, and that it’s not right to be in the mindset that those team members should be forced to come into an office to satisfying there need for socialization, in fact unfortunately in that situation maybe they need to change fields or companies.

Re: Remote startups will win the war for top talent

#85

Post by swarnie » Tue, Aug 23, 2022, 3:35 PM UTC

I'm looking to leave my employer at the conclusion of this project (April/May 2023). Full remote ranks first, 4:1 hybrid next, full onsite not even considered.

I imagine this is common across the industry.

Re: Remote startups will win the war for top talent

#86

Post by danwee » Tue, Aug 23, 2022, 3:35 PM UTC

icedchai wrote: post #59

bearjaws wrote: post #16

I never really understood why people say productivity and socializing is difficult remote. It's difficult because people aren't putting thought into it. At my last big-co job the leadership just kept waiting for 'covid to be over' and not improving our remote work culture. Hybrid models will always struggle and 1/3/1 is going to be probably the best you can do. My company is fully remote, we embraced the GitLab model…

Communications and collaboration is very important. However, "socializing" through Slack is simply just not the same as going out to lunch with a coworker, for example. Permanent remote work has a very detached feel to it, at least for me.

I don't get this. If you have a coworker that enjoy having lunch with you... what's stopping you both doing so? I mean, even if you both work from home, you could still schedule a lunch together in the city, right? If you both live in different cities, well, I guess before COVID you weren't having lunch together that frequently.

100% remote doesn't dictate how (or with who) you eat lunch.

Re: Remote startups will win the war for top talent

#87

Post by dboreham » Tue, Aug 23, 2022, 3:35 PM UTC

paulcole wrote: post #6

I always think this is a funny argument because most companies don't need top talent. For nearly every business, good enough is definitely good enough. So the question to me is for average to slightly above average employees, will remote companies "win"?

I'm not sure it's a question of having top talent. What I see happening is that any given organization has a minimum acceptable level of skill and experience for developers in order to be acceptable for hire. There's no concept of "well we'll hire this kind of crappy person for the open job because that's all we can get". What remote work has done is to make the pool of available candidates that exceed the competence bar massively bigger. I have seen this play out in a medium sized SV tech start up -- they were able to staff up during the pandemic at a much higher rate because nobody cared where the candidates were located. This seems like a Rubicon that can't be un-crossed -- once you have a ton of people in Seattle and San Diego and on the east coast, and people who decided to move back to their home town in Kentucky, there's no going back to on-site folks who rode the bus in from Gilroy.

Re: Remote startups will win the war for top talent

#88

Post by seibelj » Tue, Aug 23, 2022, 3:35 PM UTC

onion2k wrote: post #56

seibelj wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My company pays SF-payscale salaries no matter where the employee lives. That's how we attract and retain the best talent.

I'm happy for you. Let's talk right now if you're hiring.

https://recurforever.com/

Re: Remote startups will win the war for top talent

#89

Post by andrewingram » Tue, Aug 23, 2022, 3:35 PM UTC

bearjaws wrote: post #60

lm28469 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Meanwhile we have had no problem sourcing candidates since we can pull from anywhere in the world, we have some incredible people all over the world that we would not have gotten otherwise. How do you handle taxes ? For example in Europe a German company can't hire a French dev if the german company doesn't have a legal entity in France, it quickly gets out of control both in term of paperwork and cost. The dev can…

We use a service called Deel, but we are US entity and that helps in many cases. Essentially they have companies in most countries and you pay them (deel) directly and then they payout to your staff. This also simplifies benefits for healthcare, taxes, retirement. If you find it helpful, heres my referral code https://deel.com/referrals/Michael-n53jPEZJ

How are preferential equity schemes handled? i.e in the UK, best case tax rate on equity is 10%. But if you're not on government-approved scheme, you'll get taxed at around 55% in the event of a meaningful exit.

When I've raised this previously, the point has been dismissed as "45% of lots is still lots", but if you're doing an expected returns calculation and considering other jobs (like a large well-paying org with RSUs) it becomes quite meaningful.

Re: Remote startups will win the war for top talent

#90

Post by cube2222 » Tue, Aug 23, 2022, 3:35 PM UTC

bearjaws wrote: post #16

I never really understood why people say productivity and socializing is difficult remote. It's difficult because people aren't putting thought into it. At my last big-co job the leadership just kept waiting for 'covid to be over' and not improving our remote work culture. Hybrid models will always struggle and 1/3/1 is going to be probably the best you can do. My company is fully remote, we embraced the GitLab model…

I agree. I think the problem is companies that try to do a hybrid model, and end up using tools and workflows optimized for on-site work, which makes the remote experience very subpar and clunky.

In a remote-first company, everything (tools, workflows, etc.) will be organized around that remoteness, which yields much better results (and doesn't make remote workers feel like second-class citizens).