This sounds incredibly interesting to me as a Japanese learner myself. Do you have some kind of email list I could sign up for future updates? Even if it's a couple of years until it is available, I'm sure I'll still be interested in the product.
Looking for a co-founder to change language learning forever
21–30 of 39 posts
Re: Looking for a co-founder to change language learning forever
#22Earlier quoted context omitted.
If you're looking for something like this for Japanese, Kou, has been doing great work on https://jpdb.io/ which contains many of the concepts OP's app is trying to accomplish specifically for Japanese. In particular it has the SRS, parallel text for words, assisted study and % of content you already know.
Yeah, I'm familiar with this and it's a great resource. The key difference is that it is still flashcard based. And you have to choose between a word or sentence cards that conflate the context with the word being studied. By actually parsing the text, when you are studying the word "eat": "Where are we going to eat?", "I wanna eat a burrito the size of my head!", "No way. You just ate that ice cream cone." * You sep…
Hi. I'm the dev behind jpdb.
> The key difference is that it is still flashcard based.
Oh I have a lot more ambitious plans than just flashcards. (: It's just that you have to start somewhere, and flashcards are basically the current gold standard. No need to immediately throw the baby out with the bathwater, especially since a huge chunks of code can be reused for other forms of learning.
> You have an objective right/wrong signal instead of a subjective 0-4 scale.
I also have this as an option (pass/fail mode). The con of this is that it lowers the quality of SRS predictions, so you end up having to do more reviews. But depending on how much time you gain by not having to think about how to grade it can become a net improvement, so it's a tradeoff. I haven't yet had the time to precisely measure it yet.
> And change examples for every study repetition.
For what's worth I have that too. (:
> You can focus on individual conjugations or overall knowledge of the word.
In Japanese I feel this would be counterproductive, since essentially all conjugations are regular. This means that once you're not a beginner you just want to learn a word without wasting time on conjugations. But for a beginner, sure. And if you want to make any money targetting beginners is the way to go.
Re: Looking for a co-founder to change language learning forever
#23Hello! I have some input and questions and feedback - I have a deep interest in this topic.
For background, I studied Japanese to a reasonable level of proficiency (read novels, worked in an all-Japanese company for many years, passed N1, etc).
I found the hardest plateau to overcome was the intermediate ("I know a bunch of words, grammar.I can read most things given time, and have a basic conversation in a 1:1 environment about topics I'm comfortable with") to proper fluent ("I'm comfortable in group conversations, able to work around words I don't understand, not have to ask people to slow down, etc").
The most challenging this was always knowing if I'm correct or not, how correct, and if not, why.
When you are beginner -> intermediate, the validation curve is basically if they understand you, or not. Once you get pretty decent, upper intermediate/lower advanced, people can generally figure out what you are trying to say or mean, even when it's weird/unnatural. Getting feedback beyond this point is really hard.
What you are suggesting just sounds like a faster way to get to upper intermediate - not really the last 10$-20%, which is the hardest (upper intermediate to advanced, to fluent).
For this last step, I think the problem that needs to be solved is feedback that includes not just what is un-natural, but how it can be more natural and ideally why (sometimes the reason is "it just is", which is fine -- in this case just show examples that are similar that illustrate the common pattern).
A super basic example that illustrates this might be as described here: https://oshiete.goo.ne.jp/qa/7848587.html
O パンが食べたい パンを食べたい
Both are grammatically correct, but the former is natural, the latter is weird. There is no real way to get this feedback without someone telling you, though, since everyone understands you either way, no-one is going to stop and point out your weirdness.
Do you think your tool can solve this problem? Ideally, I want to be able to write something complex, and have it improved - kind of like bilingual Grammarly, I suppose, but more aimed at semantic/natural language.
Re: Looking for a co-founder to change language learning forever
#24This is very akin to something that I have been interested in for some time. Being bilingual myself, German and English, and having a keen interest in historical natural language progression and evolution has led me down a few roads related to learning models and personal experiences. Testing teaching approaches for myself in regards to other languages using non traditional models and approaches, many may seem abstract but this is how I feel language learning should be approached. The cookie cutter methodology of one size fits all does not work, i.e flash cards, standard repetrion and memorization etc. I have taken a more functional approach to language modeling personally, not so much in a technical sense as my coding skills are still subpar, but the ideas and approaches are grounded in the use of current NLP models and methodologies and how to tailor them to myself. Rather difficult to lay out the approach in a "short" reply as it is multi faceted and may sound disjointed in this format. However, I feel I have found a "new" model, or approach to a model, of learning which is non traditional and works through engaging the individual through their own interests and experiences to tailor the experience in a way that doesn't feel like task engagement or an obvious game model approach. Language is also rooted in mathematics and, in my opinion, can not be disconnected from the model especially regarding type text. I have found that hand written script as well as the type script and font formats also reinforce these aspects, much of this idea is based in pattern recognition and repetition within the context of all language but not in a "conscious" way. Hopefully this reply makes sense. Would love to make the time to show some of the methodology I have approached this with and developed and solidify approaches into a less abstract response, either way good luck!
Re: Looking for a co-founder to change language learning forever
#25Earlier quoted context omitted.
Oh, I completely agree on the problem , and I think any technological solution to that problem will require NLP (perhaps tautologically so). But to my mind, the open questions are (a) what does that mean specifically? and (b) is a tool like that compelling enough to motivate a venture-backed startup in 2022? To expand on (a), I think a Young Lady's Illustrated Primer [1] that generates interesting level-appropriate c…
Huh? I don’t follow. Parsnip is a tool to highlight and surface unknown words to directly enable easier extensive reading and comprehensible input. One of the key parts of it is a reader app. Just because we can’t see the steps needed to build the primer doesn’t mean we shouldn’t create anything. It seems like you find something about my idea distasteful, but I’m having trouble understanding what, if anything, your o…
I was just replying to ipnon's comment in the abstract here -- it wasn't specifically about Parsnip, and I don't mean it as a subtweet or anything like that.
Re: Looking for a co-founder to change language learning forever
#26> mostly language learners, teachers, and tech people, but finding people, perhaps unsurprisingly, have a lot of trouble seeing past the curse of knowledge. Respectfully, how do you know that you're making something people want?
If you've every completed a Duolingo just to realize you can barely string a sentence together you will have shared my pain. Language acquisition is a long, confusing and lonely road. It's clear that OPs vision for NLP augmented language learning will be the norm one day sooner or later. Dictionaries, endless books and tutors is just too much time and money for most people.
The answer is that Duolingo doesn't teach you grammar, which is why a bunch of startups have popped up to teach grammar specifically.
It's not evident NLP is the solution.
Re: Looking for a co-founder to change language learning forever
#27Hello! I have some input and questions and feedback - I have a deep interest in this topic. For background, I studied Japanese to a reasonable level of proficiency (read novels, worked in an all-Japanese company for many years, passed N1, etc). I found the hardest plateau to overcome was the intermediate ("I know a bunch of words, grammar.I can read most things given time, and have a basic conversation in a 1:1 envir…
Yes, this is a big problem and will require many tools to tackle.
I see turning Parsnip into a language learning platform which can be incorporated into other tools and products. Including one like Grammarly in the future, but active feedback for language production is, as you mentioned, a much harder and more subtle challenge.
I do thing tools like GPT-3 and the like make it achieveable though.
Re: Looking for a co-founder to change language learning forever
#28Earlier quoted context omitted.
Huh? I don’t follow. Parsnip is a tool to highlight and surface unknown words to directly enable easier extensive reading and comprehensible input. One of the key parts of it is a reader app. Just because we can’t see the steps needed to build the primer doesn’t mean we shouldn’t create anything. It seems like you find something about my idea distasteful, but I’m having trouble understanding what, if anything, your o…
I was just replying to ipnon's comment in the abstract here -- it wasn't specifically about Parsnip, and I don't mean it as a subtweet or anything like that.
Ok, gotcha. Yeah, I understand that. It can be hard to determine intention with text only.
Re: Looking for a co-founder to change language learning forever
#29Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yeah, I'm familiar with this and it's a great resource. The key difference is that it is still flashcard based. And you have to choose between a word or sentence cards that conflate the context with the word being studied. By actually parsing the text, when you are studying the word "eat": "Where are we going to eat?", "I wanna eat a burrito the size of my head!", "No way. You just ate that ice cream cone." * You sep…
Hi. I'm the dev behind jpdb. > The key difference is that it is still flashcard based. Oh I have a lot more ambitious plans than just flashcards. (: It's just that you have to start somewhere, and flashcards are basically the current gold standard. No need to immediately throw the baby out with the bathwater, especially since a huge chunks of code can be reused for other forms of learning. > You have an objective rig…
Sounds great. If you're up for it, I'd love to chat with you about jpdb. It sounds like, and if nothing else, we'd have a great conversation about the challenges and ideas behind making a language learning tool.
Re: Looking for a co-founder to change language learning forever
#30This is very akin to something that I have been interested in for some time. Being bilingual myself, German and English, and having a keen interest in historical natural language progression and evolution has led me down a few roads related to learning models and personal experiences. Testing teaching approaches for myself in regards to other languages using non traditional models and approaches, many may seem abstra…
That is quite the information dump. But I get it.
In building Parsnip, one of the hardest things to do is communicate in a way others can digest, isn't disjointed, and get excited about.
Email me, and I'd be glad to chat with you.