Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The messages that survived civilisation's collapse

bbc.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 74 posts

Re: The messages that survived civilisation's collapse

#31

Post by namaria »

Aachen wrote: post #17
namaria wrote: post #7

All examples of how ancient script can be understood nowadays are due to some connection to modern living languages or side-by-side translations which are connected to some currently used language somehow. Kinda defeats it's own argument. No script survives complete collapse of the culture around it.

I'm reading a book, fictional but using a lot of real-world concepts, where they send messages to aliens at first in a self-encoding scheme or something (it's been a while since they needed it, I might misremember the name). I figured this can be real by starting like 1 | 2 || 3 ||| 1+2=3 1+1=2 And building up the language further from there. Draw triangles and label the sides for Pythagoras theorem, repeat a couple…

Or, you know, we just accept that just as humanity had a beginning it will also have an end. Our species, and the current civilization iteration, are most likely completely inconsequential and nothing more than a blip over the history of the universe.

We are all going to die eventually, our civilization will fade into nothing and all our thoughts and knowledge will be forgotten forever. So what? It's kinda relieving to be honest.

Re: The messages that survived civilisation's collapse

#32

Post by toss1 »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #18
andrewstuart wrote: post #13

I love the fictional idea that I have that some billionaire will create multiple underground caverns around the world in geologically stable places, each containing the knowledge of the world - engraved onto aluminum plates. A vast cavern of tunnels and chambers and catacombs built only to preserve the worlds knowledge. I imagine in 10,000 years some future explorers making their way into such a cavern and finding al…

There's a few projects like that already happening, like Github's code repository on Svalbard. That said, I think one big reason why the artifacts mentioned - Sumerians, Mayans, Egyptians, or even Vesuvius - were preserved was because they were lost; buried in the desert, overgrown in dense jungles, buried under volcanic rock and ash, etc. For something to stand the test of time, it has to be lost. Al-Quaeda and ISIS…

>>Another option: Time capsules of data sent out into space in containers that can survive re-entry in thousands of years. Ideally with a lot of flashy light effects and a persistent smoke trail on re-entry.

Interesting idea indeed! How to solve the issue that there is a ~70% chance the capsules will re-enter and fall into an ocean area?

Re: The messages that survived civilisation's collapse

#34

Post by chihuahua »

GoldenRacer wrote: post #27
Cthulhu_ wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a few projects like that already happening, like Github's code repository on Svalbard. That said, I think one big reason why the artifacts mentioned - Sumerians, Mayans, Egyptians, or even Vesuvius - were preserved was because they were lost; buried in the desert, overgrown in dense jungles, buried under volcanic rock and ash, etc. For something to stand the test of time, it has to be lost. Al-Quaeda and ISIS…

The space container idea could make for a really interesting book plot. It starts in modern day where they send the capsule up. Then skips forward several hundred years to society collapsing. Then skip forward a few hundred more to see how the myth of knowledge falling from the sky is being passed down. Then it keeps skipping ahead to see how the myth evolves. By the end you just have some super cryptic prophecy like…

They open the capsule, and find that it contains nothing but a complete transcript of the Johnny Depp-Amber Heard trial.

Re: The messages that survived civilisation's collapse

#35

Post by radford-neal »

Aachen wrote: post #17
namaria wrote: post #7

All examples of how ancient script can be understood nowadays are due to some connection to modern living languages or side-by-side translations which are connected to some currently used language somehow. Kinda defeats it's own argument. No script survives complete collapse of the culture around it.

I'm reading a book, fictional but using a lot of real-world concepts, where they send messages to aliens at first in a self-encoding scheme or something (it's been a while since they needed it, I might misremember the name). I figured this can be real by starting like 1 | 2 || 3 ||| 1+2=3 1+1=2 And building up the language further from there. Draw triangles and label the sides for Pythagoras theorem, repeat a couple…

Related: Lincos, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lincos_language

Re: The messages that survived civilisation's collapse

#36

Post by imoverclocked »

toss1 wrote: post #32
Cthulhu_ wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a few projects like that already happening, like Github's code repository on Svalbard. That said, I think one big reason why the artifacts mentioned - Sumerians, Mayans, Egyptians, or even Vesuvius - were preserved was because they were lost; buried in the desert, overgrown in dense jungles, buried under volcanic rock and ash, etc. For something to stand the test of time, it has to be lost. Al-Quaeda and ISIS…

>>Another option: Time capsules of data sent out into space in containers that can survive re-entry in thousands of years. Ideally with a lot of flashy light effects and a persistent smoke trail on re-entry. Interesting idea indeed! How to solve the issue that there is a ~70% chance the capsules will re-enter and fall into an ocean area?

If it’s not a projectile, we have the tech already. Landing on Mars is done autonomously today but making a robot/computer to last more than 1000 years isn’t in our wheelhouse yet.

Re: The messages that survived civilisation's collapse

#37

Post by ProjectArcturis »

toss1 wrote: post #32
Cthulhu_ wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a few projects like that already happening, like Github's code repository on Svalbard. That said, I think one big reason why the artifacts mentioned - Sumerians, Mayans, Egyptians, or even Vesuvius - were preserved was because they were lost; buried in the desert, overgrown in dense jungles, buried under volcanic rock and ash, etc. For something to stand the test of time, it has to be lost. Al-Quaeda and ISIS…

>>Another option: Time capsules of data sent out into space in containers that can survive re-entry in thousands of years. Ideally with a lot of flashy light effects and a persistent smoke trail on re-entry. Interesting idea indeed! How to solve the issue that there is a ~70% chance the capsules will re-enter and fall into an ocean area?

Perhaps, rather than have it orbit the earth for thousands of years, you could send it on a single, long trip. By having the projectile far away from earth, other satellites, and other gravity sources, you could improve precision and aim for exactly the center of the largest landmass. Or you could intentionally land in the ocean and make it float.

Re: The messages that survived civilisation's collapse

#38

Post by tdehnel »

namaria wrote: post #31
Aachen wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm reading a book, fictional but using a lot of real-world concepts, where they send messages to aliens at first in a self-encoding scheme or something (it's been a while since they needed it, I might misremember the name). I figured this can be real by starting like 1 | 2 || 3 ||| 1+2=3 1+1=2 And building up the language further from there. Draw triangles and label the sides for Pythagoras theorem, repeat a couple…

Or, you know, we just accept that just as humanity had a beginning it will also have an end. Our species, and the current civilization iteration, are most likely completely inconsequential and nothing more than a blip over the history of the universe. We are all going to die eventually, our civilization will fade into nothing and all our thoughts and knowledge will be forgotten forever. So what? It's kinda relieving…

But this doesn’t have to be so unless we want it to be. Modern humans are unlike all others in the sense that we have the capacity to extend our species to the end of the universe.

Re: The messages that survived civilisation's collapse

#39

Post by dr_dshiv »

andrewstuart wrote: post #13

I love the fictional idea that I have that some billionaire will create multiple underground caverns around the world in geologically stable places, each containing the knowledge of the world - engraved onto aluminum plates. A vast cavern of tunnels and chambers and catacombs built only to preserve the worlds knowledge. I imagine in 10,000 years some future explorers making their way into such a cavern and finding al…

This reminds me of a method to develop time travel:

A thousand beautiful stone tablets are buried and sunk all around the world in multiple languages. The tablets announce the purpose of the experiment and share a series of dates and precise locations. In those places and times, a set of extremely sensitive sensors are set up to listen. If one is reasonably confident that the tablets will be discovered in a 1000 years, and if there is some unknown physics that enables sending information back in time, then a communication channel could be set up allowing the flow of future tech into the past. And worst case, we are left with a bunch of beautiful stone tablets for future generations to ponder over.

Re: The messages that survived civilisation's collapse

#40

Post by vikramkr »

labrador wrote: post #33

Related: How do we warn future civilizations about the danger of our nuclear waste? This has been studied and I always found it interesting: How to build a nuclear warning for 10,000 years’ time https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200731-how-to-build-a-n...

The problem with all the proposals I've seen in those articles about earnings is that basically all of them are guaranteed to get someone even more interested in what's behind the curtain. A strange fellowship keeping the population fearful of what's hidden in the caverns? Let's try and sneak in and see what they're hiding!
Post reply on HN