Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Collapse of emergency healthcare in England may be costing 500 lives every week

twitter.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

81–90 of 461 posts

Re: Collapse of emergency healthcare in England may be costing 500 lives every week

#81

Post by dominotw »

bananapear wrote: post #45

But what has caused the collapse of emergency healthcare in the UK? A lack of supply or an increase in demand?

Its always the same answer. People stuffing their faces with garbage food and chilling on the couch all day. Apparently there was an explosion of obesity in UK during covid. These people clog up all the available supply leaving very little for the rest. Its the same story everywhere. Ppl whine about funding, shortages ect but no one cares about if we can do something about the demand.

Govt pushed covid vaccine on young healthy people saying its good for the community if we all get it and its our duty to society. So why isn't getting off the couch and going for a walk considered duty to society.

Re: Collapse of emergency healthcare in England may be costing 500 lives every week

#82

Post by ben_w »

dkarl wrote: post #61
DethNinja wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t buy that explanation. Democracy turned out to be easily manipulatable with large sums of money and media control. At this point, an average person can’t have much of an affect on how government is acting. Very few people can take a day off to protest, and even if they do, protests tend to be meaningless too. I’m not saying that average person is blameless but most of the fault lies with the ruling classes.

> Democracy turned out to be easily manipulatable with large sums of money and media control. Is it, though? Establishment interests spend huge sums of money and often lose. The Republican party was an elite country club party, but when evangelicals emerged as a political force, the party had to jump on that wave, no matter how distasteful the old party elites found it. Then Trump came along, giving blatantly shallow…

Wrong country. Despite the joke, the UK isn't an American state.

Re: Collapse of emergency healthcare in England may be costing 500 lives every week

#83

Post by cjrp »

iam-TJ wrote: post #64
bananapear wrote: post #45

But what has caused the collapse of emergency healthcare in the UK? A lack of supply or an increase in demand?

Increase in demand - much of which is attributed (by the NHS itself) for people having poor life-styles (meaning tending to obesity [0] and not maintaining physical and mental fitness), and the tendency for people to be kept alive longer existing with chronic conditions that a few decades ago would have naturally expired (dead!). There's been an endemic problem for the last 30+ years where-by a large proportion of th…

617k is roughly 11% of admissions for that year. That alone doesn't explain the situation.

Re: Collapse of emergency healthcare in England may be costing 500 lives every week

#84

Post by ben_w »

treeman79 wrote: post #41
DethNinja wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t buy that explanation. Democracy turned out to be easily manipulatable with large sums of money and media control. At this point, an average person can’t have much of an affect on how government is acting. Very few people can take a day off to protest, and even if they do, protests tend to be meaningless too. I’m not saying that average person is blameless but most of the fault lies with the ruling classes.

The founding fathers were heavily against democracy and did everything they could to limit the power of the government without being completely ineffective. Idea being that individuals create wealth. Government will always become tyrannical.

> The founding fathers were heavily against democracy

Well yes, but this is the UK so the founding fathers would be one of William the Conqueror, James VI and I (that's one person), or George III and his regent, depending on which argument you want to have.

Re: Collapse of emergency healthcare in England may be costing 500 lives every week

#85

Post by neilwilson »

Overtonwindow wrote: post #15

What if the government allowed private enterprise to open emergency clinics in times of great need? There are probably a lot of people who would be willing to pay out of pocket for medical care, especially in an emergency, if it meant getting seen sooner.

"What if the government allowed private enterprise to open emergency clinics in times of great need?"

Using what for doctors?

The problem is a supply side shortage of medical staff. Praying to the god of the private sector won't magically cause doctors to appear.

I'll remind everybody again. Primary care in the UK has been in private hands since 1948. It's the lack of capacity in the private part of the NHS that is driving people towards A&E for basic stuff.

Re: Collapse of emergency healthcare in England may be costing 500 lives every week

#86

Post by SketchySeaBeast »

nradov wrote: post #78
SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't that 10% stat potentially hiding issues of co-pay, deductibles, network range, and actual level of coverage?

Nothing is being hidden. High deductible health plans have been popular, especially among younger consumers. The federal government has specifically promoted those as a way to hold down healthcare expenses, and enrollees receive income tax benefits. https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/products/databriefs/db317.htm Health plans are required to meet network adequacy requirements. https://www.kff.org/health-reform/issue-brief/netw…

My point with the "hidden" comment was that even though people have coverage they may not be able to use it due to having an unaffordably high deductible, and your first link is showing that there is a rise in high deductible plans and that lower income people don't usually have an HSA to offset the cost. It also points out that 60% of people get their insurance through their company, and that companies are increasingly moving towards the cheapest plans with the highest cost to the individual user.

Is an insurance plan an insurance plan if you can't pay the deductible?

Re: Collapse of emergency healthcare in England may be costing 500 lives every week

#87

Post by willyt »

bananapear wrote: post #45

But what has caused the collapse of emergency healthcare in the UK? A lack of supply or an increase in demand?

Lack of qualified staff willing to work at the current pay rates. There are shortages in plenty of sectors at the moment so medical personnel who have had enough are leaving or retiring early and they can’t be replaced because pay rises are not keeping up with inflation. I’m going to look for my source just now but I read that there are 100,000 vacancies in the care professions currently. Postal workers, train drivers, bus drivers, dockers and barristers(!) are all planning to strike in the next month or two because of inflation effectively causing large pay cuts.

Re: Collapse of emergency healthcare in England may be costing 500 lives every week

#88

Post by 1234letshaveatw »

Broken_Hippo wrote: post #66
Overtonwindow wrote: post #15

What if the government allowed private enterprise to open emergency clinics in times of great need? There are probably a lot of people who would be willing to pay out of pocket for medical care, especially in an emergency, if it meant getting seen sooner.

Tell me, if you are having a heart attack or have had a stroke, how likely are you to have the mental fortitude required to realize that not only is there a for-profit emergency service, but you can pay to get seen now? Probably not very likely. If your emergency is urgent but not actually life threatening, then you might. You might - might - think of it if you have gall bladder or appendix types of pain, if you aren…

in the states, my experience has been that neighbors will frequently discuss the location of new urgent care clinics or share them in group chats. "hey do you guys know of any good urgent care places? I have a swollen arm from a bee sting" was a recent msg thread that popped up on my phone. Usually the patient is insured but you can (should) also ask for a cash price if needed.

Re: Collapse of emergency healthcare in England may be costing 500 lives every week

#89

Post by 1234letshaveatw »

bzxcvbn wrote: post #56
Overtonwindow wrote: post #15

What if the government allowed private enterprise to open emergency clinics in times of great need? There are probably a lot of people who would be willing to pay out of pocket for medical care, especially in an emergency, if it meant getting seen sooner.

The USA have tried, it doesn't work. People still wait hours and hours in the ER. They just have to pay thousands for the privilege.

doesn't work? there are urgent care places everywhere

Re: Collapse of emergency healthcare in England may be costing 500 lives every week

#90

Post by ben_w »

refurb wrote: post #73
pjc50 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People aren't arguing that the vote was manipulated in the UK, rather that the voters were misled, especially by the partisan media.

I know. What I'm saying is that what people see as manipulation of voters (nobody could ever believe that!) is actually just another valid opinion that you so happen to disagree with. Nobody was deceived. Nobody was manipulated. The voters just don't agree with you on this issue.

If any vote results in voters regretting their vote, I think that counts as voters being deceived.

I don't know (or care, given I left the UK as a direct result of the vote) if there was any significant regret in this case.

(I caveat "significant" because 5-10% of the population will agree with almost any proposition in any opinion poll, no matter how nonsensical the question).

Post reply on HN