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The EU Commission accepts high error rates when checking chats

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Re: The EU Commission accepts high error rates when checking chats

#91

Post by [deleted] »

joelhaasnoot wrote: post #76
GuB-42 wrote: post #68

Actually 10% false positive rate is not that bad if the system really has a 90% chance of detecting child abuse. Keep in mind that it only raises a flag, it doesn't automatically results in a false conviction. I don't have the numbers but I think that during an investigation, way more than 10% of suspects did nothing wrong. In fact, some people estimate that 10% of convictions are wrong (though I think that's an over…

So 10% of Google accounts are now banned? https://nypost.com/2022/08/22/google-bans-dad-for-sending-pi...

[deleted]

Re: The EU Commission accepts high error rates when checking chats

#92

Post by nix23 »

hn_throwaway_69 wrote: post #45
ho_schi wrote: post #3

The commission does not seek to break encryption Okay. Encryption is not only important to protect private communication, but would also help perpetrators/criminals No. It is there to protect us from perpetrators, criminals and all the people which think they are on the good side. The road to hell is paved with good intentions. Authoritarian regimes on our planet always thought they were the "good guys". Encryption i…

>No. Assume for sake of argument that it were possible to develop an encryption regime which protected bona fide users, but did not protect criminals. That would be a good thing. As a matter of public policy, criminals shouldn't be given the right to communicate for the sake of furthering criminal activity without the possibility of lawful interception. It's here that some technologists lose sight of the real world.…

Exellent idea. We make a socialscore-system and just people above a certain score can buy stuff with working encrytion.

Re: The EU Commission accepts high error rates when checking chats

#94

Post by KevinOhHeaven »

leodriesch wrote: post #70
rjzzleep wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

> It specifically prohibits discrimination and welcomes people from other nations, both of which the average German does not actually like That’s an absolutely wild claim and I’d like to know where you got this impression from.

You're perhaps in a sociopolitical bubble if you find that claim wild. Even if you don't personally know anyone with this perspective, I would hope that it's logical, rational, and expected that a significant proportion of an indigenous population targeted for "diversification" would be opposed to the idea.

(As a counter-anecdote, I don't personally know a single person in my social circle, in Australia, who is supportive of racial diversity, ranging from indifference to a depressing powerlessness and helplessness to protest what is being done to us by the government, to open and outright racist hostility to the concept.)

Re: The EU Commission accepts high error rates when checking chats

#95

Post by Xylakant »

rjzzleep wrote: post #61
ho_schi wrote: post #3

The commission does not seek to break encryption Okay. Encryption is not only important to protect private communication, but would also help perpetrators/criminals No. It is there to protect us from perpetrators, criminals and all the people which think they are on the good side. The road to hell is paved with good intentions. Authoritarian regimes on our planet always thought they were the "good guys". Encryption i…

Quoted post unavailable.

> All the recent war involvements of Germany are inherently against the German constitution

You'll have to back that up a little. Which wars? Which involvement is considered unconstitutional? Because a lot of those have been tested in the constitutional court and found to be covered by the constitution - see the courts judgement from 1994 https://www.servat.unibe.ch/dfr/bv090286.html#

"BVerfGE 90, 286 (286)1. Die Ermächtigung des Art. 24 Abs. 2 GG berechtigt den Bund nicht nur zum Eintritt in ein System gegenseitiger kollektiver Sicherheit und zur Einwilligung in damit verbundene Beschränkungen seiner Hoheitsrechte. Sie bietet vielmehr auch die verfassungsrechtliche Grundlage für die Übernahme der mit der Zugehörigkeit zu einem solchen System typischerweise verbundenen Aufgaben und damit auch für eine Verwendung der Bundeswehr zu Einsätzen, die im Rahmen und nach den Regeln dieses Systems stattfinden.

2. Art. 87a GG steht der Anwendung des Art. 24 Abs. 2 GG als verfassungsrechtliche Grundlage für den Einsatz bewaffneter Streitkräfte im Rahmen eines Systems gegenseitiger kollektiver Sicherheit nicht entgegen."

Re: The EU Commission accepts high error rates when checking chats

#96

Post by 7373737373 »

gloppers wrote: post #75
7373737373 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Give me access to yours and your childrens' phones, I suspect that you or one of them may be a pedophile. Don't want to? Too bad, here is the law that says that I can get it all anyway. Don't worry, I'm a good programmer, I won't see it myself, I'll let one of my algorithms do it for me (I can't tell you how it works though, since you may use that information to hide something from me)! I pinky promise that neither I…

Yes that sounds fine to me. We have specially trained police in this category of crimes, for good reason. I trust them to investigate fairly and proportionately. If we cast aside the hyperbole and look at the actual details of what is being proposed in this regulation, it's clear they're taking a decent and reasonable approach here.

And you think that the potential capture of a few criminals outweighs the violation of privacy of communications of 450 million humans?

You'd be okay with forcing this onto people who don't want this, and the majority who won't even know that this is happening?

Re: The EU Commission accepts high error rates when checking chats

#97

Post by BlargMcLarg »

gloppers wrote: post #66
dathinab wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't apply at all. If you get accidentally flagged as criminal it can easily destroy your live, without a years log curt case you might never get properly un-flagged even if you are innocent but then the damage is more then just done. Worse after wards the chance to again be attacked when you are innocent aren't that small because even if you get un-flagged the system is most likely remembering that you had bee…

What do you mean "flagged as criminal"? In EU we have the principle of innocent until proven guilty. No-one is criminal unless they have been through the process of justice. The scenario you are describing just isn't going to happen. I'm glad that the EU are proposing sensible and proportionate solutions to the thorny issue of paedophiles concealing their depraved activities online. The privacy activists have cried w…

In the real world, people do in fact get a guilty verdict only to discover the individual wasn't guilty.

The scenario described is rare, but what you are advocating for is to overfit at the cost of a few innocents. Which is great, until it happens to you or someone you care for.

The world is constantly changing. Law and justice aren't rigid. You never know when you find yourself on the other side with no way of realizing.

Re: The EU Commission accepts high error rates when checking chats

#98

Post by ginko »

perryizgr8 wrote: post #53

How ironic. On one hand EU forces legitimate businesses to spend billions of dollars to satisfy GDPR in the name of privacy. On the other, they are planning to stream teenagers' private pics directly to designated "investigators".

It's almost as if the EU were composed of many different people with different viewpoints.

Re: The EU Commission accepts high error rates when checking chats

#99

Post by atoav »

rjzzleep wrote: post #61
ho_schi wrote: post #3

The commission does not seek to break encryption Okay. Encryption is not only important to protect private communication, but would also help perpetrators/criminals No. It is there to protect us from perpetrators, criminals and all the people which think they are on the good side. The road to hell is paved with good intentions. Authoritarian regimes on our planet always thought they were the "good guys". Encryption i…

Quoted post unavailable.

> It specifically prohibits discrimination and welcomes people from other nations, both of which the average German does not actually like

Isn't "prohibiting discrimination" something else entirely as "allowing all foreigners to come in without questions asked"? Germans profited from the ability to take refugee during and after WWII themselves.

Also, the data would rather suggest that the average German is far less against migration than your comment suggests: https://www.fes.de/themenportal-flucht-migration-integration...

Re: The EU Commission accepts high error rates when checking chats

#100

Post by Joker_vD »

pelasaco wrote: post #57
ho_schi wrote: post #3

The commission does not seek to break encryption Okay. Encryption is not only important to protect private communication, but would also help perpetrators/criminals No. It is there to protect us from perpetrators, criminals and all the people which think they are on the good side. The road to hell is paved with good intentions. Authoritarian regimes on our planet always thought they were the "good guys". Encryption i…

> The mothers and fathers of the German Grundgesetz (~ constitution) learned that the hard way. > https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/gg/art_10.html Weren't we Germans calling out Poland, because they decided that national law can take precedence over EU law? So I guess our GG < EU Law.

That's different, you got to understand. /s
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