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Racism and Meritocracy

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Re: Racism and Meritocracy

#51
I am racist.

And sexist.

I subconsciously attribute certain qualities to men and women, and to various ethnicities. Underneath all of the various common jokes -- "Asians are good at math", etc. -- there is an undercurrent of discussion where other people are admitting their biases, too.

When I get on the phone with technical support and hear a thick East Asian accent, the first thing that happens is I grit my teeth. I feel frustrated that I am having to try to resolve a technical issue with someone that I have to actively concentrate on in order to understand clearly; I feel annoyed in expectation of their overstated politeness; I am immediately resigned to not getting the problem resolved at all, as they are probably going to ask me to troubleshoot a networking problem by rebooting a computer.

These are biases that have been built up over a period of many years of similar experiences, one little bias at a time. And, when the call actually resolves the issue quickly and without any frustration at all, I find myself thinking, "That went better than expected."

I recognize this about myself. So, when I notice these things happening, I consciously moderate my tone, and try to consciously manage my opinions and feelings and statements. But, that doesn't change the fact that the bias is there, affecting my subconscious.

Likewise, for women in tech. I know there are amazing women in technology, and in other male-dominated fields. I'm occasionally fortunate enough to work with some of them, covering a wide range of other demographics. Still, when it comes time to hire again (someday soon, I hope), applications from women will first be met with biases built up one-by-one from a lifetime of experiences: all the various women friends that need help "fixing their computers", or of a past applicant who we hired, presented with an easy starting project and clear instructions -- "no coding necessary, just do some nice-looking Photoshop mockups" -- and who called, the next day, saying that she had cried all night and talked to her mom because she didn't think she could do the work because we used iframes in an ajax-y way.

Or, when I hear about a black entrepreneur. The first thing that bubbles up from my subconscious is, "Wow, they're succeeding in spite of modern black culture." I have to beat that thought down and consciously regard them as an individual.

These are uncomfortable admissions to make. I would be loathe to admit them in more polite company. Terms like "racism" and "sexism" themselves carry strong biases -- that the only forms of "racism" are "white superiority" and the only forms of "sexism" are blatant misogyny and creepy sexual undertones.

But, racism and sexism and other -isms are a part of who we are, a part of our psychology that dates back to our tribal and "us versus them" cultural influences. I think that trying to pretend that they don't exist is only going to prolong their effects.

Knowing that they exist can help us make better decisions.

Re: Racism and Meritocracy

#52
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course they can, and in fact the article touched on this: > Remember, part of the defense against the racism theory is that the applicants are already skewed before any selection is done. > I once spent time with a promising entrepreneur who was not a white man. Because their startup sold a product that a lot of tech entrepreneurs buy, many of their customers were graduates of Y Combinator. So I asked if they were…

I used images of a conference audience because it's the best way I could think of to get a sample of what the hacker community looks like. If you can think of a better one, let me know. (The point of that link, for anyone who didn't get it, is that the lack of diversity Eric Ries perceives in the output of our filter is also present in the input, which implies it's not caused by bias in the filter.)

I think there is an error in logic here (and I think Ries touched on it): a bias in the input of a filter does not preclude a bias in the filter itself.

A bias in the input may exist because of a bias -- perceived or actual -- in the filter.

Re: Racism and Meritocracy

#53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And clearly, many african-americans and many women were not doing the steps needed to be talented enough to be able to make it big now. The most likely reason they did not do that, is probably because it just did not occur to them. You use words like "clearly" and "probably" but provide neither explanation nor evidence to back up your suppositions. Clearly, you expect your audience thinks exactly the way you do and w…

The "clearly" comes out of logic. If you assume that my "result" statement is correct, then the reason would also have to be correct. Do you think African American students, 15 years ago, were spending time studying how to use computers? I think it's rather likely because: - I've never heard of this - Such playing-with-computers is something that was confined to the somewhat richer and educated people in American soc…

Do you think African American students, 15 years ago, were spending time studying how to use computers? I've never heard of this

I was, as were all of the other black computer science students who graduated with me at MIT. Do we get to question your bias now?

Re: Racism and Meritocracy

#54

I am racist. And sexist. I subconsciously attribute certain qualities to men and women, and to various ethnicities. Underneath all of the various common jokes -- "Asians are good at math", etc. -- there is an undercurrent of discussion where other people are admitting their biases, too. When I get on the phone with technical support and hear a thick East Asian accent, the first thing that happens is I grit my teeth.…

Underneath all of the various common jokes -- "Asians are good at math", etc. -- there is an undercurrent of discussion where other people are admitting their biases, too.

That's not a bias, it's simple fact. Asians have SAT math scores 72 points higher than average, TIMSS scores 74 points higher than average, and are disproportionately represented in professions requiring significant mathematical background.

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0883611.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trends_in_International_Mathema...

Further, the top 5 nations on the math component of TIMSS have been the 5 first world countries in Asia (Japan, Hong Kong, Singapore, South Korea and Taiwan) in all years since 1995 (in 1995, Taiwan was not included, and Belgium was #5).

Re: Racism and Meritocracy

#55
This post has many empirical problems, but let's start by looking at the male/female deck by Terri Oda. The only data in the entire deck is on slide 21, and the caption reads:

  Two normal distributions that are 0.15 standard deviations  
  apart (i.e d=0.15. This is the approximate magnitude of 
  the gender difference in mathematics performance, 
  averaging across all samples.)
In other words, what is plotted there is actually NOT data but simply the textbook Gaussian curves for two distributions.

So let's take a look at actual data. Here is a significantly more rigorous analysis:

http://www.lagriffedulion.f2s.com/math.htm

This actually uses data from three different tail populations: Female mathematicians in the NAS, Fields Medalists, and Putnam Competition winners. Lo and behold, a simple Gaussian model predicts that small differences in average mathematical ability produce significant sex differences in the tail[1]. And these predictions tally with reality (e.g. the empirical proportion of females in the NAS).

Ms. Oda also does not consider two other crucial aspects, which are:

1. The large difference in spatial ability between men and women:

  http://goo.gl/SGhDw

  On the whole, variation between men and women tends to be 
  smaller than deviations within each sex, but very large 
  differences between the groups do exist–in men’s high 
  level of visual-spatial targeting ability, for one.
2. The large difference in preferences between men and women:

  http://goo.gl/ccKyj
                     
  A study by Lubinski and Benbow followed the careers of 
  mathematically precocious youth from age 13 to 23. All 
  were in the top 1% of mathematical ability. At age 23 less 
  than 1% of the girls were pursuing doctorates in 
  mathematics, engineering, or physical science, while 
  almost 8% of the boys were. Equal aptitude not 
  withstanding, girls pursued doctorates in biology at more 
  than twice the rate of boys, and in the humanities at 
  almost three times the rate of boys.
The asymmetric part of this whole debate is that someone who voices the above counterarguments in public runs the risk of being browbeaten like Larry Summers or Michael Arrington.

[1] This is of course assuming that distributions remain Gaussian, though it is well known that correspondence to Gaussianity drops off considerably as you move into the tails.

Re: Racism and Meritocracy

#56

At my company, we're hiring mobile developers. We have received over 100 resumes. 2 of them were from women. I wish we could hire a more diverse group, but it's pretty obvious that changing our selection process isn't enough.

I have the same problem, and I'm female running a tech company. But I have a solution: I teach a group of kids to program, equal gender. Maybe in 10 years I'll be hiring some of them. You know what interests the girls most? I tell them about my lifestyle, my freedom to travel and to live how and where I want, the long lunch breaks I can take if I want (after working hard enough to get employees). By teaching these kids lifestyle options they stay engaged. It's early days yet, I've only just started the classes but I'm enjoying the process.

We're looking forward to the new Stanford CS101 online class, hopefully I can base my teaching on this which should spin off into the kids taking other online classes of their own volition.

Re: Racism and Meritocracy

#57
So, how about stepping back from the issue of race because that makes people stupid: if Silicon Valley (or a large chunk of the institutions which make it up) has a persistent bias against X, regardless of whether that is invidious or just a result of suboptimal processes, and that bias is unconnected to merit, then you should be able to profitably exploit it.

Silicon Valley has many biases, of varying levels of connection to actual merit. One is that it is a very chummy place: who you know is, historically, the first filter applied to you (there is an entire culture around intros) and some folks consider it to be the best available method of approximating merit. This suggests the existence of a strategy which repeatably beats the tar out of the Valley: invest in people before they are known by the powers-that-be, introduce them to the powers-that-be, make out like a bandit. You will probably end up rich enough to take up amusing hobbies like running message boards in your spare time.

It is entirely possible that Silicon Valley has a blind spot with respect to X, where X is a entrepreneurial demographic or a market or a business model or a geographic location or a personality type or a whatever. If X is unconnected to merit, then that suggests the existence of a strategy which will predictably produce crushing. I might even go so far as to say that absence of crushing is fairly persuasive circumstantial evidence about either the existence of the blind spot or about the connection to merit.

Re: Racism and Meritocracy

#58
post #19

One of the problems with racism in particular is that it has effects on people from birth. Past racism may have hurt their parents' socioeconomic prospects, forcing them to be born in an economically depressed ghetto with poor schools and gang violence. Even if there's no racism past that point, if their parents were prevented from ascending to the middle class, they won't pass on middle-class virtues emphasizing the…

I think this train of thought would be considered a violation of the author's "No hand-wringing" rule. The last half of this article is dedicated towards debunking the "pipeline problem" which you are describing. Now whether or not he effectively debunked it is up to debate, but at least in the case of women entrepreneurs he offers some compelling data: "...women receive only about 30% of degrees in CS. But 30% is a…

> at least in the case of women entrepreneurs he offers some compelling data

Come on, let's not be coy about this. The particular issue that philwelch is referring to is not that of women, but of blacks. Women have a completely different set of reasons for why they don't achieve as much career-wise as men, despite similar levels of education (the first thing that comes to mind is of course the time demands of child-bearing/rearing).

But for blacks, there definitely is a "pipeline problem." The quality of education available to the average black child is much poorer than that available to the average white child. Although there is definitely both conscious and subconscious discrimination against blacks, in the enterpreneurial industry as well as a raft of others, the biggest chunk of the problem can be attributed to subpar education and a culture that actively discourages success through math/science/engineering.

Re: Racism and Meritocracy

#59
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "clearly" comes out of logic. If you assume that my "result" statement is correct, then the reason would also have to be correct. Do you think African American students, 15 years ago, were spending time studying how to use computers? I think it's rather likely because: - I've never heard of this - Such playing-with-computers is something that was confined to the somewhat richer and educated people in American soc…

Do you think African American students, 15 years ago, were spending time studying how to use computers? I've never heard of this I was, as were all of the other black computer science students who graduated with me at MIT. Do we get to question your bias now?

I'm not talking of an individual, I'm speaking of a general trend. And by the way, "graduating from MIT" means nothing to me. I went to a university, you did too, the university you went to does not mean much (to me).
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