Live data from Hacker News

Audible feedback on just how much your browsing feeds into Google

github.com

171–180 of 210 posts

Re: Audible feedback on just how much your browsing feeds into Google

#171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> tracking doesn't seem to negatively impact my quality of life at all but it keeps the many free services I value greatly running. Your data is not worthless, and generally I consider data harvesting harmful because of the nation-state subpoenas it enables. If I attend a protest for abortion rights, and my geo data is bound to that event and then I seek an abortion in another state, ive now created a wonderful finge…

Has this happened before?

Well, the "before Google" was librarians, and they have a history, a long, long history of saying "no" to the feds when it comes to giving out reading and checkout lists of people.

*Of course* Google and friends happily give that information out "pre-warrant".

Re: Audible feedback on just how much your browsing feeds into Google

#172

A common explanation I get from people with poor digital hygiene is that they do not see how it is affecting them. Making the imperceptible perceptible is a great concept for more innovations. I have sent the kids in my house logs for their devices from the DNS blocker I have running on our network, but it was too much for them to digest. Perhaps I should work on a visualization tool of all the data that shows impact…

>they do not see how it is affecting them I'm an adult who understands tracking tech and in particular Google's level of tracking quite well (I used to work on AdWords), and I'm one of these people -- tracking doesn't seem to negatively impact my quality of life at all but it keeps the many free services I value greatly running. Visual or audio representations of the amount of data they're collecting are hardly an ar…

I once had an idea for a project where I would roughly attempt to translate personal information into a value amount. For example, how much is it worth to companies to know your gender, on average? You could probably figure this out with some rough ideas of CPC for various segments. Obviously the economics don't work quite the same as money, but there's something to it.

This is all to say I don't think it's "bad" in the way malware is bad or a security breach is bad, but there's a dollar amount attached to these things, and you may be giving a company more money than you're willing to pay.

Re: Audible feedback on just how much your browsing feeds into Google

#173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> tracking doesn't seem to negatively impact my quality of life at all but it keeps the many free services I value greatly running. Your data is not worthless, and generally I consider data harvesting harmful because of the nation-state subpoenas it enables. If I attend a protest for abortion rights, and my geo data is bound to that event and then I seek an abortion in another state, ive now created a wonderful finge…

Has this happened before?

Yesterday: https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/a-dad-took-photos-...

Re: Audible feedback on just how much your browsing feeds into Google

#174

A common explanation I get from people with poor digital hygiene is that they do not see how it is affecting them. Making the imperceptible perceptible is a great concept for more innovations. I have sent the kids in my house logs for their devices from the DNS blocker I have running on our network, but it was too much for them to digest. Perhaps I should work on a visualization tool of all the data that shows impact…

>they do not see how it is affecting them I'm an adult who understands tracking tech and in particular Google's level of tracking quite well (I used to work on AdWords), and I'm one of these people -- tracking doesn't seem to negatively impact my quality of life at all but it keeps the many free services I value greatly running. Visual or audio representations of the amount of data they're collecting are hardly an ar…

If everyone started blocking their data even when used in aggregate we would have no more free services. $10/month for video hosting (YouTube,), $50/month for GPS navigation (GMaps), $5/month for IM (Messenger)

Is that the world we'd like to live in?

Re: Audible feedback on just how much your browsing feeds into Google

#175

A common explanation I get from people with poor digital hygiene is that they do not see how it is affecting them. Making the imperceptible perceptible is a great concept for more innovations. I have sent the kids in my house logs for their devices from the DNS blocker I have running on our network, but it was too much for them to digest. Perhaps I should work on a visualization tool of all the data that shows impact…

>they do not see how it is affecting them I'm an adult who understands tracking tech and in particular Google's level of tracking quite well (I used to work on AdWords), and I'm one of these people -- tracking doesn't seem to negatively impact my quality of life at all but it keeps the many free services I value greatly running. Visual or audio representations of the amount of data they're collecting are hardly an ar…

> tracking doesn't seem to negatively impact my quality of life

It’s nice you’re willing to make this trade, but obviously some of us are not. I value my privacy, and I do not want Google to know what I’m interested in, how old I am, or my gender. I find the fact that Google tries to infer these things about me deeply, deeply creepy.

Google also goes out of their way to collect information you don’t want to share. Turn off “Location history” on your phone, and Google Maps will no longer remember where your “Home” is (or, actually, it will claim it won’t remember, but it will still randomly tell you how long it will take to get home). This is of course nonsense. I can want to tell someone where I live and also not want that same someone to track everywhere I go in minute detail. Google’s position here is kind of like an abusive partner saying if you give them your phone number they obviously have the right to see everything in your phone. All the while claiming “You’re in control!” Soooo creepy!

The more insanely creepy things Google does with my data, the less I trust them. Again, it’s fine if you trust them. You’re free to trust anyone you want (even my abusive ex partner, although I’d caution against it). But some of us don’t trust Google, and we don’t want to move to the opt-out-village[0] so here we are.

[0]: https://www.theonion.com/google-opt-out-feature-lets-users-p...

Re: Audible feedback on just how much your browsing feeds into Google

#176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Has this happened before?

Yesterday: https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/a-dad-took-photos-...

It's a valid point but, is pretty different in its intent from what GP comment is getting at.

This wasn't a result of "let's target this group we've deemed political enemies", it was "we're attempting to enforce this law (mind you, effectively everyone agrees with) via data collection".

I can buy how that's a pretty darn thin line, but, in practice I think it's also true that we haven't seen much evidence of the more shady interpretation that GP's post implies.

Re: Audible feedback on just how much your browsing feeds into Google

#177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is it anti-democratic? I'm on board with a ton of criticisms of surveillance capitalism, but "anti-democratic" isn't one I understand.

What's the quickest way to bend folks to your will? Apply pressure at their weak points. How would one find them? Anyone who shares information (even inadvertently) with a third-party, that info becomes government property. More here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32557745 Watch "The United States of Secrets" on Kanopy and sometimes PBS.

This feels more like "anti-libertarian" rather than "anti-democratic." The state having fairly tremendous power through warrants and other policing systems is largely orthogonal to the idea of government by the will of the people.

Re: Audible feedback on just how much your browsing feeds into Google

#178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yesterday: https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/a-dad-took-photos-...

It's a valid point but, is pretty different in its intent from what GP comment is getting at. This wasn't a result of "let's target this group we've deemed political enemies", it was "we're attempting to enforce this law (mind you, effectively everyone agrees with) via data collection". I can buy how that's a pretty darn thin line, but, in practice I think it's also true that we haven't seen much evidence of the more…

I think this example was even worse, because it wasn’t the government asking Google for data about a user, Google went out and proactively offered it (and erased this poor guy’s email and cancelled his phone).

There’s also been plenty of cases where people were charged with a crime on the basis of a warrant to find all phones in a given location at a given time.

The political-dissidents-from-audio-clips sounds a little far fetched, but certainly there have been cases where Alexa recordings were supoenaed and used against their owners. GP was certainly right that companies collecting data about me is a liability for me.

Re: Audible feedback on just how much your browsing feeds into Google

#179

A common explanation I get from people with poor digital hygiene is that they do not see how it is affecting them. Making the imperceptible perceptible is a great concept for more innovations. I have sent the kids in my house logs for their devices from the DNS blocker I have running on our network, but it was too much for them to digest. Perhaps I should work on a visualization tool of all the data that shows impact…

>they do not see how it is affecting them I'm an adult who understands tracking tech and in particular Google's level of tracking quite well (I used to work on AdWords), and I'm one of these people -- tracking doesn't seem to negatively impact my quality of life at all but it keeps the many free services I value greatly running. Visual or audio representations of the amount of data they're collecting are hardly an ar…

I agree with most of what you wrote.

That said, the biggest tangible negative impact of tracking is that the profiles companies build on you are overly simplistic caricatures that reinforce societal biases. For example, for many complex reasons, women do not apply to executive roles as much as men. Google is thus less likely to show me an ad for an executive role knowing that I’m a woman [0], since statistically, I’m less likely to click it. This further reinforces the societal trend of women applying to executive roles at a lower rate than men.

[0] https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-intersect/wp/2015/07...

Re: Audible feedback on just how much your browsing feeds into Google

#180

A common explanation I get from people with poor digital hygiene is that they do not see how it is affecting them. Making the imperceptible perceptible is a great concept for more innovations. I have sent the kids in my house logs for their devices from the DNS blocker I have running on our network, but it was too much for them to digest. Perhaps I should work on a visualization tool of all the data that shows impact…

What I have noticed from reading comments on the subject of online privacy on HN and for the past 15 years is that many commenters believe that a prerequisite for change is that computer users must care. Not only that but they must also take action.

The commenters are all people who either (a) care for their own online privacy and/or (b) are actively engaged in profitting from others' disregard for online privacy. There is no one commenting who does not care, obviously.

Certainly, if the people who do not care joined the people who do care, and they each took unilaterla action to protect their privacy, and this was actually effective, then that is one possible path to change. Admittedly, it seems rather far-fetched.

Another path to change is regulation.

For example, when I consider the history of telecommunications, I recall federal regulation to protect customer privacy before the internet despite that there were few people actually had reason to care about the issue let alone took action on it. Many of us have living relatives who can recall the "party lines" they once used. Customers accepted the high probability of eavesdropping.

But eventually judicial decisions and later federal legislation in 1968 gave telecom customers certain privacy protections. It did not matter whether all customers cared about privacy or not. Nor did it require all of them to take action.

https://www.newyorker.com/culture/culture-desk/the-bootlegge...

It took forty years to get from Olmstead to Berger. That is longer then the public www has existed.

Post reply on HN