Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Workplace surveillance is coming for you

pluralistic.net

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

81–90 of 207 posts

Re: Workplace surveillance is coming for you

#81

Post by bigDinosaur »

skyfaller wrote: post #22

On workplace surveillance / "bossware": > Mazzoli seems to have either not used his product, or, if he did, did so under conditions where he was in charge of it – using it the way an athlete might use a stopwatch to time their own sprints, and not the way a boss might: to decide whether to dock your pay or fire you. > This inability to understand the difference between using a technology and having the same technolog…

This stuff is worse than the Death Star. At least that thing made no pretence about helping its targets. I cannot fathom how much my mood has dropped on reading about Bossware. I'd do pretty much anything in my career to avoid it.

Re: Workplace surveillance is coming for you

#82

Post by photochemsyn »

Note also Theranos executives were using similar email monitoring tools to make sure low-level employees weren't copying emails to private folders (because executives knew Theranos was engaging in fraud and didn't want their emails showing up in criminal or civil court cases later on). These are tools like Nagios, Zabbix, etc. which allow application and data movement monitoring.

Some will argue these are necessary security tools, but in reality if the executives are so afraid of their employees ratting them out or selling their data to Russian hackers or whatever, then they've got larger problems with their organization (again, see Theranos).

Re: Workplace surveillance is coming for you

#83

Post by helloworld97 »

nopehnnope wrote: post #56
helloworld97 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's some pretzel logic there. They can't arbitrarily implement/enforce rules without first disclosing them, and it looks bad in a court of peers if they start doing this haphazardly. I would actually say it's easier for them to get away with this in an at-will environment without these rules. "Position was eliminated" works pretty well (in the US).

It’s great that you think that, but what I described is what the government does (because of civil service protections) and what every sane HR department with a high legal risk workforce does. Any US employment lawyer would advise that you follow this practice.

What world do you live in where anti-discrimination laws aren't already aren't already utilized by the employers you've referenced? It's really hard to get fired as a US Federal Government or Union employee (based on what I've seen from both in a Midwest state, for United Auto Workers) and the EEOC has had historically strong support for employees for the entities I've cited.

Private entities will do what they've always done and my original comment succinctly describes the default outcome. Nothing has changed.

Re: Workplace surveillance is coming for you

#85

Post by sophacles »

nopehnnope wrote: post #64
sillystuff wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the result of managers who have no idea how to do the tasks of the employees they are "managing". E.g., non-technical manager managing technical employees who uses silly metrics like LOC because he/she has no idea how to evaluate the employee's performance. Also, upper management somehow feel that their middle and lower managers can be trusted to act like adults while the people who do the actual work cannot…

It’s not about management, it’s about convincing a jury that knows absolutely nothing about your company and industry except what two lawyers argue to it.

The surveillance software is installed by incompetent management.

Re: Workplace surveillance is coming for you

#86

Post by hotpotamus »

skyfaller wrote: post #22

On workplace surveillance / "bossware": > Mazzoli seems to have either not used his product, or, if he did, did so under conditions where he was in charge of it – using it the way an athlete might use a stopwatch to time their own sprints, and not the way a boss might: to decide whether to dock your pay or fire you. > This inability to understand the difference between using a technology and having the same technolog…

This made me think about other tech that has no good use. Flamethrowers come to mind. Not the fun ones that Elon will sell you as a gimmick, but the ones that toss sticky flammable liquids at people.

I was listening to someone describe their use in WWII, and he was I suppose trying to defend it by saying that actually most of the people it killed weren't burned at all, but rather killed because they were in enclosed fortifications and apparently flamethrowers produce prodigious amounts of carbon monoxide - basically you'd take a couple breaths and it's over - the carbon monoxide will bind into your blood cells such that even if you immediately step out into fresh air, you're a dead man walking. But at least your corpse will be recognizable for your friends and family I suppose; you won't be burned beyond recognition.

But building a reliable flamethrower is an interesting technical challenge, so I'm sure you can find an engineer who will be willing to give it a go.

Re: Workplace surveillance is coming for you

#87

Post by AyyWS »

bheadmaster wrote: post #52

I'm currently reading "The Tyranny of Metrics" which provides a decent analysis of how over-measuring things that don't have anything to do with the real goal often serves as a deterrent to real progress. What managers want to know is how much do their workers contribute to the success of the company . What they measure is how much time do workers spend doing X . They're completely glossing over the middle step of ho…

in 2015 I made a change that stopped 90% of the tickets that rolled into my team's queue. The remaining 10% were complicated real customer issues. Our entire department was closed 6 months later, because I assume our ticket completion was so low, and we were so slow to fix issues. :/

Re: Workplace surveillance is coming for you

#88

Post by HideousKojima »

sudden_dystopia wrote: post #84

Quit reading at “large stage capitalism”. Such a bs term. This is not capitalism, this is techno corporate fascism. That is what is failing and causing misery. And the more we gaslight capitalism, the further down the totalitarian path we are going to go.

Exactly, the proposed solutions are always more state power and more state intervention which will simply lead to even more regulatory capture and even stronger entrenched corporate interests.

Re: Workplace surveillance is coming for you

#89

Post by giantg2 »

lcnPylGDnU4H9OF wrote: post #42
avg_dev wrote: post #23

Damn, I had some fairly old opinion of Doctorow where I disliked him for some reason or other, but I am definitely revising that. I thought this was a great article. I am certain “bossware” will accelerate the downfall of already shitty workplaces. Very happy to hear Amazon is doing away with it. Strongly hope their workers unionize anyway. What kind of employer nickle-and-dimes a worker’s bathroom breaks? Not a good…

> What kind of employer nickle-and-dimes a worker’s bathroom breaks? I had a teacher in high school who would respond the same way (more or less) whenever someone would ask to use the restroom: > If you ever have a job that needs you to ask to use the restroom, find a better job.

There are some strict time-keeping requirements for bathroom use when it comes to certain contracts, like government ones. It wasn't too bad, but I forget the specifics. It was like it had to be less than 5 minutes, or you use your 15 minute breaks or lunch for anything longer.
Post reply on HN