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Ask HN: Anyone working 4 day week here, as an employee?

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Re: Ask HN: Anyone working 4 day week here, as an employee?

#211

Post by daniel_iversen »

jdthedisciple wrote: post #187
Fr3dd1 wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Context: I do recruiting as a team lead. I am happy you found what you were looking for. But from my pov, if you want to work less than fulltime and thats a non negotiable thing for you, please be open up front with the people who interview you. Typically when a full time position is offered, the workload of a full person is needed (lets not discuss if 8h of work a day results in better or more output than less hours…

What if I'm confident that I can convince you my 32 hrs are worth just as much or even more than s.o. else's 40 hrs though? I as an applicant would also not want to be ruled out only based on that, I would want to have a chance to present my own full offer to you as well.

It's not a "chance to present my own full offer" when the role explicitly states full-time. That's called trying to re-negotiate and it's not great. Also, there's no way I'll let you convince me of formally hiring you at 32 hours because of the hassles involved on my side, and more importantly the slippery slope - say the next guy thinks he can do it in 16 hours, the next person is remote, the next person doesn't want to join Zoom calls because they're more effective async, another want to only work at night when they're "in the zone".. not everything is up for negotiation (even though in reality, you should try and have flexibility in the roles in day-to-day practice because we're all unique humans and stuff comes up etc. but you get my point). I think people in tech have gotten a bit precious and spoiled TBH :)

Re: Ask HN: Anyone working 4 day week here, as an employee?

#212

Post by mcv »

I've always worked 32 hours. When I got my first job in 2001, I told them I wanted to work 4 days, taking Wednesday off (giving me two two-day work weeks with a mini-weekend in between). All my later jobs were also 4 days. This was never a problem. I once spoke to a prospective employer for a really interesting sounding job that really didn't want people working 4 days per week, and couldn't be budged no matter what arguments I used (they understood, and agreed, but still wouldn't move), so I had to let them go. Never regretted it.

For the past 10 years I've been freelancing, and still 4 days a week. It's a good standard, and it has never been a problem for any client.

It probably helps that I live in Netherland, though. Part-time work is completely accepted here. Lots of parents work 3 or 4 days to have more time with their children. Before Covid, lots of people had one WFH day. Nowadays, many teams have one office day.

Work-life balance is important. Don't sacrifice it.

Re: Ask HN: Anyone working 4 day week here, as an employee?

#213

Post by mellavora »

jdthedisciple wrote: post #187
Fr3dd1 wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Context: I do recruiting as a team lead. I am happy you found what you were looking for. But from my pov, if you want to work less than fulltime and thats a non negotiable thing for you, please be open up front with the people who interview you. Typically when a full time position is offered, the workload of a full person is needed (lets not discuss if 8h of work a day results in better or more output than less hours…

What if I'm confident that I can convince you my 32 hrs are worth just as much or even more than s.o. else's 40 hrs though? I as an applicant would also not want to be ruled out only based on that, I would want to have a chance to present my own full offer to you as well.

Ok, I believe you. Your 32 hours are just as productive as an "average" developer's 40 hours.

and what if I can convince you that at our company, people with your level of talent set the bar?

We pay above market rate because we are looking for 40 hours of above average talent, which is equivalent to 55 hours of normal talent.

Re: Ask HN: Anyone working 4 day week here, as an employee?

#214

Post by mcv »

Fr3dd1 wrote: post #180
Apreche wrote: post #19

I just recently started a 32 hour a week salaried job. Here’s my story. I was at a very good job. My ultimate goal is to just go to the beach and not work at all. I realized that’s too big of a leap, so I set a shorter term more realistic goal of working 4 days a week. My employer at the time rejected the idea, so instead of ignoring recruiters like usual, I answered them. If a job wasn’t immoral, the interview proce…

Context: I do recruiting as a team lead. I am happy you found what you were looking for. But from my pov, if you want to work less than fulltime and thats a non negotiable thing for you, please be open up front with the people who interview you. Typically when a full time position is offered, the workload of a full person is needed (lets not discuss if 8h of work a day results in better or more output than less hours…

I'm usually upfront with my demand to work 4 days. I share it with them as soon as I know their basics like the location and the pay range.

Re: Ask HN: Anyone working 4 day week here, as an employee?

#215

Post by mellavora »

krageon wrote: post #201
scruple wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I would still prefer to go back to the non-tech non-startup industry. As someone who has spent > 15 years in the tech-only industry, both in massive corporations and startups, I'm curious to know how someone finds these roles. I think I'd quite like something like this when I am ready to move on from my current (startup) role.

You find them by applying to non-tech companies that are large :)

Ex-colleague of mine was interviewed by big pharma for ML roles.

Re: Ask HN: Anyone working 4 day week here, as an employee?

#216

Post by mcv »

daniel_iversen wrote: post #211
jdthedisciple wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if I'm confident that I can convince you my 32 hrs are worth just as much or even more than s.o. else's 40 hrs though? I as an applicant would also not want to be ruled out only based on that, I would want to have a chance to present my own full offer to you as well.

It's not a "chance to present my own full offer" when the role explicitly states full-time. That's called trying to re-negotiate and it's not great. Also, there's no way I'll let you convince me of formally hiring you at 32 hours because of the hassles involved on my side, and more importantly the slippery slope - say the next guy thinks he can do it in 16 hours, the next person is remote, the next person doesn't wan…

I think it's employers who've gotten a bit precious and spoiled, if they're so reluctant to consider the needs and desires of their employees.

Re: Ask HN: Anyone working 4 day week here, as an employee?

#217

Post by StevenWaterman »

gaws wrote: post #93
StevenWaterman wrote: post #5

Just accepted a 32hr week job. Was advertised as, and applied for it, as 40hrs. After having an offer from them, I got another offer elsewhere at a much higher salary. I knew the first was a better cultural fit, so went back and asked them to work with me. No room to negotiate on salary, so they offered 32hr weeks and I jumped at it.

I hope you got the 32-hour agreement in an iron-clad contract. I've seen companies flip the script on people a few months into the job.

For sure, they hire people part-time quite often, so its just set up as a part time job.

Not too worried about them turning around and screwing me over, because we both know I'm the one holding all the cards. I trust them to look after me and treat me right, which is why I turned down the higher offer. If they betray that trust, there's nothing stopping me leaving. Didn't burn any bridges with the 2nd company, they're happy to have me back if it doesn't work out.

Re: Ask HN: Anyone working 4 day week here, as an employee?

#218

Post by TylerLives »

okumurahata wrote: post #182
mostertoaster wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So this life of total leisure is the thing we all want, and it is for that reason the capitalist system seems to work. Someone has to provide the labor that allows you to continue in a life of leisure.

Society doesn't require many people to work to sustain itself (we have the recent example of the pandemic). If we could enjoy for a while what we have built until this current moment, without inventing or creating anything new, how much time will it take for society to collapse? Animals live a life of leisure without much work, and they don't have the infrastructure that we as humans have. They don't collapse. How mu…

If our ancestors thought this way, we would be living in much worse conditions now. Even if your goal is to maximize your own happiness, you will find that humans are happiest when they move towards some important goal they set out for themselves. Ever tried playing a video game with cheats? It's fun for about 10 minutes. Then it becomes extremely boring and meaningless. I'm sure there are ways in which hedonists can to some degree overcome this(rotating between different hobbies, doing drugs, immersing themselves in fictional worlds etc.) but this isn't even sacrificing the future for the present, it's just sacrificing both.

Re: Ask HN: Anyone working 4 day week here, as an employee?

#219

Post by dvfjsdhgfv »

I have - in my country as a parent of a child up to 4 years old you can demand part time work and your employer can't refuse it. I chose Wendesday, and it was wonderful. Monday and Tuesday were wonderful and efficient, there was no Monday blues or anything like that. Thursday and Friday were even better. I felt like I was living, and my work is and interesting addition to my life, not the other way round. An extremely positive experience. And nobody complained - I got excellent yearly reviews as well.

Re: Ask HN: Anyone working 4 day week here, as an employee?

#220

Post by tmnvdb »

krageon wrote: post #206
Lutger wrote: post #194

Dutch here. Haven't worked more than 32 hours a week in 20 years. I did downgrade to 24 a week for a while, convinced my boss I wanted to do a masters and he let me. Salary was just enough to pay for everything. Its mostly normal to work 32 hours in my country. I feel 32 should be the norm actually. In my line of work - software development, 32, 36 and 40 hours are all very common. Less than 32 is really uncommon tho…

> Dutch > mostly normal to work 32 hour It is absolutely not if you work in the tech sector. The expectation is full-time and this is 40 hours at most companies.

When I working in NL (small embedded tech company) all my colleagues were doing 32 hrs. My friend in different company did the same. Some companies do have a 40 hr culture, but it's quite normal to do 32 hrs in my experience.

I Live in Vienna now, most of my colleagues do 32 hrs. Boss doesn't love it, but it's better than losing people.

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