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Silent crisis of soaring excess deaths in Britain is only tip of the iceberg

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Re: Silent crisis of soaring excess deaths in Britain is only tip of the iceberg

#251

Post by timeon »

bhk wrote: post #129
jajahusjsna wrote: post #8

Covid is one aspect of this. Another is the massive. underfunding of the NHS over the last decade. This has become much more evident post-covid thanks to the backlogs. - Getting a GP to see you in person is now quite difficult (they want to do everything via phone). - Seeing your GP (depending on your area) can involve a 2-3 week wait and waiting in an hours long phone queue. - When you are referred to hospital for t…

There has been no drop in funding that might account for the recent "soaring excess deaths". Quite the opposite. https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/projects/nhs-in-a-nutshell/nhs-... You speak of massive underfunding, but NHS funding has increased in real terms almost every single year since the 1950s: https://fullfact.org/health/spending-english-nhs/ "At the moment, UK public health spending is the equivalent of about 7%…

While we are comparing years. There were probably less people with senior age in 1955 than there are now.

Re: Silent crisis of soaring excess deaths in Britain is only tip of the iceberg

#252

Post by n4r9 »

rob_c wrote: post #194
verytrivial wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure this is a very strong defence of how the Government has managed the NHS since then, though is it? Or should I read this as a veiled appeal for Corbyn to return as the leader of the Opposition for another try? (In which case I'll take my leave.)

I'm not citing evidence for that I'm showing how both sides of the political divide won't dare touch the holy cow that is the NHS. It's interesting how every time you show there's a problem with a political party everyone assumes instead of damning the system your trying to politically point score. I think the real change needs to be made in the civil service and certain powers striped from Whitehall but it'll never…

The fact that Blair helped privatise the NHS doesn't show anything about "both sides of the political divide". It just shows how right-wing Blair was.

Re: Silent crisis of soaring excess deaths in Britain is only tip of the iceberg

#253

Post by wongarsu »

solar-ice wrote: post #40
jajahusjsna wrote: post #8

Covid is one aspect of this. Another is the massive. underfunding of the NHS over the last decade. This has become much more evident post-covid thanks to the backlogs. - Getting a GP to see you in person is now quite difficult (they want to do everything via phone). - Seeing your GP (depending on your area) can involve a 2-3 week wait and waiting in an hours long phone queue. - When you are referred to hospital for t…

Indeed; the reason people exonerate it is that the Tories have been threatening the population with a dismantling and privatisation of the NHS for over a decade now, and that's not what anyone wants. People want the NHS to work, to be funded and managed appropriately. A primary reason it doesn't is the Tories crippling it.

The same Tories that wanted to increase NHS funding by 350 million per week? What ever became of that?

(excuse the gallows humour)

Re: Silent crisis of soaring excess deaths in Britain is only tip of the iceberg

#255

Post by rleigh »

ricardobayes wrote: post #234
rleigh wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should it be an option? Because we live in a free country, and should be free to spend our money as we see fit. Even if others don't agree with it. Why should we all be compelled by the force of law to divert a huge fraction of our income to an organisation which is so ineffective and inaccessible? We are forced to spend a significant fraction of our salaries on the NHS whether or not we want to. If we feel that…

Even though I agree with your comment, I don't know of any European countries where you could opt-out from paying social security. Even if some small eastern european country has this option, it is probably unsustainable for a larger country (or one with more healthcare spending).

It could be done multiple ways. You could pay into a government insurance scheme or you could pay into a private one. The main point is that the payment of the insurance premiums is decoupled from the service provision. Right now the two are tightly-coupled and you can't realistically choose either of them. Look at the French model as an example.

On a small scale, there is some degree of separation. Sometimes the NHS pays for treatment in private facilities, and sometimes private insurance pays for treatment in NHS facilities.

Re: Silent crisis of soaring excess deaths in Britain is only tip of the iceberg

#256

Post by hotpotamus »

Nexxxeh wrote: post #246
hotpotamus wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps for some reason your friends are disproportionately feckless cowards? I've met zero people in my life who have any fear of criticizing health systems, public or private. Perhaps the people I've met are just unusually heroic. And so your aunt is currently able to purchase a higher quality of care because she has the money to do so? And this is an option for all moneyed citizens of the UK?

While I'm not a fan of your tone (not that of your parent poster), I agree entirely with the bones of your post. I do not think their experience as stated is anywhere near... universal.

Indeed, I'll admit my tone can get quite peevish after reading for the Nth time about how people are being silenced (note the irony there). It's nothing other than trying to create a victim/persecution complex to sell your point of view and it's an intellectually low tactic.

Re: Silent crisis of soaring excess deaths in Britain is only tip of the iceberg

#257

Post by cies »

phtrivier wrote: post #233
origin_path wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's what lots of people want - I can assure you, I know quite a few - but the British left attacks anyone so viciously and nastily that they aren't ever going to admit it to anyone seen in the vicinity of a Guardian. The NHS has collapsed since COVID. No, it isn't due to lack of funding, that's a lie. NHS funding has increased massively under the Conservatives who haven't talked about even limited privatisation fo…

I'm genuinely interested in the link to the data about the vaxx / unvaxxed split. I know the most ardent antivaxxers are going to explain every death in the next 30 years by the vaxx ; but the numbers would be so staggering that I suspect plain old counting would help.

> I know the most ardent antivaxxers are going to explain every death in the next 30 years by the vaxx

In same vein the "every death" (or hospitalization) during the covid pandemic was due to covid and/or lack of vaccination.

I add quotation marks because in both cases I do not believe it's true.

Re: Silent crisis of soaring excess deaths in Britain is only tip of the iceberg

#258

Post by ljf »

ricardobayes wrote: post #231
tehbeard wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And when you have a heart attack in the street, who's responding? In this scenario, why should an NHS ambulance pick you up when you don't contribute? Surely it should prioritize those on public healthcare? Some poor lad whose leg is broken from a fall?

Your insurance would pick up the tab in this scenario.

The question wasn't about the cost, is was 'who is responding'.

Re: Silent crisis of soaring excess deaths in Britain is only tip of the iceberg

#260

Post by ljf »

rleigh wrote: post #221
Teever wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you think this should be an option?

Why should it be an option? Because we live in a free country, and should be free to spend our money as we see fit. Even if others don't agree with it. Why should we all be compelled by the force of law to divert a huge fraction of our income to an organisation which is so ineffective and inaccessible? We are forced to spend a significant fraction of our salaries on the NHS whether or not we want to. If we feel that…

An average of £2,647 per person.
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