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Silent crisis of soaring excess deaths in Britain is only tip of the iceberg

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Re: Silent crisis of soaring excess deaths in Britain is only tip of the iceberg

#81

Post by [deleted] »

ogogmad wrote: post #38
jajahusjsna wrote: post #8

Covid is one aspect of this. Another is the massive. underfunding of the NHS over the last decade. This has become much more evident post-covid thanks to the backlogs. - Getting a GP to see you in person is now quite difficult (they want to do everything via phone). - Seeing your GP (depending on your area) can involve a 2-3 week wait and waiting in an hours long phone queue. - When you are referred to hospital for t…

One person I'm speaking to claims that the NHS hires too many bureaucrats who are impossible to fire, and who he believes provide the doctors with too much paperwork. He suggests that instead of paying those bureaucrats, the money should go to doctors, nurses and equipment. He claims that the NHS gets about the same amount of money - GDP-wise - as other European countries, while underperforming them. They already hir…

[deleted]

Re: Silent crisis of soaring excess deaths in Britain is only tip of the iceberg

#82

Post by viraptor »

jajahusjsna wrote: post #8

Covid is one aspect of this. Another is the massive. underfunding of the NHS over the last decade. This has become much more evident post-covid thanks to the backlogs. - Getting a GP to see you in person is now quite difficult (they want to do everything via phone). - Seeing your GP (depending on your area) can involve a 2-3 week wait and waiting in an hours long phone queue. - When you are referred to hospital for t…

> Even people who have experienced appalling treatment feel the need to exonerate the NHS when complaining about their experience.

It really depends on the context. Many will defend nhs because the alternative pushed from time to time is a privatised system which would only make things worse. I'm definitely in the "be careful how you criticise the nhs" camp. It's not great, but let's make sure Tories don't hear that as an encouragement to take it apart.

Re: Silent crisis of soaring excess deaths in Britain is only tip of the iceberg

#84

Post by klelatti »

thrown_22 wrote: post #50
verytrivial wrote: post #9

The word "funding" does not appear in this article. The NHS has been systematically underfunded since the Conservative entered power more than a decade ago. The crisis is real, but it is a political choice.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthan... In 1997 the NHS had 1/5th the budget it does today. Do we think that service has improved 5 times in the period? Like universities the NHS has been eaten from the inside by administrators whose sole purpose is to keep doctors from doing actual work. Talk to a nurse and 4/5th of the bullshit they have to deal with is pointless paper work.

2021 and 2020 were inflated by the pandemic.

1997 to 2019 is an increase of about 3.5x

CPI over this period was about 80% but large % of NHS costs are salaries so would be expected to run ahead of CPI by at least 1%.

Net of all this funding has gone up by say 50%-100%

But over this period the UK has had a very large increase in the elderly population who are disproportionate users of the NHS (over 85s up by about 80% roughly I think).

Having had quite a bit of contact with the NHS over the last few years I’ve seen much less form filling than I’d probably have expected.

And of course that form filling for the nurse is also known as data collection / management information which in any other context would be deemed essential for proper management of the service.

Re: Silent crisis of soaring excess deaths in Britain is only tip of the iceberg

#85

Post by Inu »

According to Eurostat Portugal "recorded an excess mortality rate of 23.9 %" in June 2022. "Other countries with rates over 15 % were Spain (16.7 %) and Estonia (16.2 %)." Overall: "Following a peak of 26.5 % in November 2021, in June 2022 excess mortality in the EU decreased slightly compared to the previous month, to 6.2 %." Bulgaria, Czechia, Italy, Hungary, and Slovakia recorded little or no excess deaths.

https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php...

Re: Silent crisis of soaring excess deaths in Britain is only tip of the iceberg

#86

Post by [deleted] »

ogogmad wrote: post #38
jajahusjsna wrote: post #8

Covid is one aspect of this. Another is the massive. underfunding of the NHS over the last decade. This has become much more evident post-covid thanks to the backlogs. - Getting a GP to see you in person is now quite difficult (they want to do everything via phone). - Seeing your GP (depending on your area) can involve a 2-3 week wait and waiting in an hours long phone queue. - When you are referred to hospital for t…

One person I'm speaking to claims that the NHS hires too many bureaucrats who are impossible to fire, and who he believes provide the doctors with too much paperwork. He suggests that instead of paying those bureaucrats, the money should go to doctors, nurses and equipment. He claims that the NHS gets about the same amount of money - GDP-wise - as other European countries, while underperforming them. They already hir…

[deleted]

Re: Silent crisis of soaring excess deaths in Britain is only tip of the iceberg

#87

Post by heisenbit »

mensetmanusman wrote: post #54

How has brexit affected the nhs?

Here in Germany the health care system is severely stressed particular nurses are hard to come by. Nurses and young doctors were often coming from other EU countries but Covid slowed this migration. I could imagine the situation in Britain much worse due to Brexit and quite possibly and even higher reliance on foreign skilled health care labour.

Re: Silent crisis of soaring excess deaths in Britain is only tip of the iceberg

#88

Post by throwaway499195 »

sudden_dystopia wrote: post #23

Wouldn’t a reasonable hypothesis try to rule out the vaccine? I’m not anti vaccine, I received the vaccine. But if excess death is creeping and it’s not Covid, would t that be one of the first things to rule out? They don’t even indicate that was ruled out, just completely ignored.

Here's my thoughts as someone who's trying to get a paper published that shows that _potentially_ the vaccine is implicated in injuries and we'd like to do more research.

We can't say that! It's getting thrown back at us. We're not saying that it's causal, we're not even trying to propose mechanisms. All we're saying is that using government reported data, we see a signal that suggests that certain adverse events are time and location correlated with vaccine roll outs. Could there be other explanations, sure!

Our successful tack has been to take all mention of the vaccine out of it and just report our organized data (organizing government data is always fun) and just publish a paper of data without even suggesting hypotheses to follow up on (doesn't feel like real science to us).

Once that paper gets in the literature, then we can write a second paper referencing that, and go on from there. It's all a political game...that's delaying good science that can save people's lives!

So my guess with this paper is that they have data, they've thought of the vaccine as an issue. But they have to go with a more politically correct reason to get the data out in the open and then they can follow up later once their data is in the literature.

Edit: why the down votes! I'm not saying that it IS the vaccine, I'm saying that it might be and we should study it. But this does show that once you bring up that idea, the censors come out of the woodwork. So frustrating! When politics stop the questions you can ask, we have serious problems.

Re: Silent crisis of soaring excess deaths in Britain is only tip of the iceberg

#89

Post by alecco »

jajahusjsna wrote: post #8

Covid is one aspect of this. Another is the massive. underfunding of the NHS over the last decade. This has become much more evident post-covid thanks to the backlogs. - Getting a GP to see you in person is now quite difficult (they want to do everything via phone). - Seeing your GP (depending on your area) can involve a 2-3 week wait and waiting in an hours long phone queue. - When you are referred to hospital for t…

An aging obese population is the elephant in the room. This problem is not only happening in UK.

About 15 years ago the NHS tried to add easy to read labeling to foods with a semaphore: red, yellow, green. And it was blocked during a Labour government with majority.

Giving it more and more funds while not fixing the underlying problems is going to cause a massive budget crisis. We need to fix the causes not the symptoms.

Re: Silent crisis of soaring excess deaths in Britain is only tip of the iceberg

#90

Post by [deleted] »

blibble wrote: post #52
solar-ice wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed; the reason people exonerate it is that the Tories have been threatening the population with a dismantling and privatisation of the NHS for over a decade now, and that's not what anyone wants. People want the NHS to work, to be funded and managed appropriately. A primary reason it doesn't is the Tories crippling it.

people have been saying the NHS is 24 hours away from being privatised by the tories for 50 years

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