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Silent crisis of soaring excess deaths in Britain is only tip of the iceberg

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Re: Silent crisis of soaring excess deaths in Britain is only tip of the iceberg

#51

Post by jajahusjsna »

SirHound wrote: post #32
jajahusjsna wrote: post #8

Covid is one aspect of this. Another is the massive. underfunding of the NHS over the last decade. This has become much more evident post-covid thanks to the backlogs. - Getting a GP to see you in person is now quite difficult (they want to do everything via phone). - Seeing your GP (depending on your area) can involve a 2-3 week wait and waiting in an hours long phone queue. - When you are referred to hospital for t…

I’m not someone who thinks the setup of the NHS is untouchable, I currently use and prefer the Dutch system. But I’m not convinced the NHS needs changing as much as it needs proper funding.

Change alone would not make much of a difference. It’s definitely mainly a funding issue. But some change is necessary, particularly where the tech side is involved (lack of record sharing, old systems vulnerable to ransomeware attacks etc).

Re: Silent crisis of soaring excess deaths in Britain is only tip of the iceberg

#52

Post by blibble »

solar-ice wrote: post #40
jajahusjsna wrote: post #8

Covid is one aspect of this. Another is the massive. underfunding of the NHS over the last decade. This has become much more evident post-covid thanks to the backlogs. - Getting a GP to see you in person is now quite difficult (they want to do everything via phone). - Seeing your GP (depending on your area) can involve a 2-3 week wait and waiting in an hours long phone queue. - When you are referred to hospital for t…

Indeed; the reason people exonerate it is that the Tories have been threatening the population with a dismantling and privatisation of the NHS for over a decade now, and that's not what anyone wants. People want the NHS to work, to be funded and managed appropriately. A primary reason it doesn't is the Tories crippling it.

people have been saying the NHS is 24 hours away from being privatised by the tories for 50 years

Re: Silent crisis of soaring excess deaths in Britain is only tip of the iceberg

#53

Post by vintermann »

ogogmad wrote: post #38
jajahusjsna wrote: post #8

Covid is one aspect of this. Another is the massive. underfunding of the NHS over the last decade. This has become much more evident post-covid thanks to the backlogs. - Getting a GP to see you in person is now quite difficult (they want to do everything via phone). - Seeing your GP (depending on your area) can involve a 2-3 week wait and waiting in an hours long phone queue. - When you are referred to hospital for t…

One person I'm speaking to claims that the NHS hires too many bureaucrats who are impossible to fire, and who he believes provide the doctors with too much paperwork. He suggests that instead of paying those bureaucrats, the money should go to doctors, nurses and equipment. He claims that the NHS gets about the same amount of money - GDP-wise - as other European countries, while underperforming them. They already hir…

This sounds plausible, because it's a story we hear all over the world, again and again. I'm guessing David Graeber's "Bullshit Jobs" has been discussed a few times on Hacker News?

Re: Silent crisis of soaring excess deaths in Britain is only tip of the iceberg

#56

Post by kurthr »

mirekrusin wrote: post #43

What if it's related to vaccination? Do other countries that implemented same the measures see the same pattern? Do other countries which did not implement those measures are free from this problem? Seems like relatively easy questions to answer, no?

Yes, luckily we have a completely controlled economy with no COVID. They only used to most ineffective (thus safe) vaccine!

It's called China. Also the chairman has declared that there have been no deaths this year. (except you, if you contradict him)

Re: Silent crisis of soaring excess deaths in Britain is only tip of the iceberg

#57

Post by ZeroGravitas »

blibble wrote: post #52
solar-ice wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed; the reason people exonerate it is that the Tories have been threatening the population with a dismantling and privatisation of the NHS for over a decade now, and that's not what anyone wants. People want the NHS to work, to be funded and managed appropriately. A primary reason it doesn't is the Tories crippling it.

people have been saying the NHS is 24 hours away from being privatised by the tories for 50 years

Including the Tories:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/jeremy-hunt-p...

Re: Silent crisis of soaring excess deaths in Britain is only tip of the iceberg

#58

Post by kergonath »

scrlk wrote: post #33
jajahusjsna wrote: post #8

Covid is one aspect of this. Another is the massive. underfunding of the NHS over the last decade. This has become much more evident post-covid thanks to the backlogs. - Getting a GP to see you in person is now quite difficult (they want to do everything via phone). - Seeing your GP (depending on your area) can involve a 2-3 week wait and waiting in an hours long phone queue. - When you are referred to hospital for t…

We are never going to get a serious debate around reforming the NHS until people move on from only comparing the UK to the US. There are many other systems that work - people only need to look across to Europe.

> people only need to look across to Europe

That would be politically risky these days… The UK needs to come back to Earth before this happens.

Re: Silent crisis of soaring excess deaths in Britain is only tip of the iceberg

#60

Post by heurisko »

lettergram wrote: post #45
jajahusjsna wrote: post #8

Covid is one aspect of this. Another is the massive. underfunding of the NHS over the last decade. This has become much more evident post-covid thanks to the backlogs. - Getting a GP to see you in person is now quite difficult (they want to do everything via phone). - Seeing your GP (depending on your area) can involve a 2-3 week wait and waiting in an hours long phone queue. - When you are referred to hospital for t…

> Another is the massive. underfunding of the NHS over the last decade. This has become much more evident post-covid thanks to the backlogs. If this were the true issue, the excess deaths would have been starting at peak Covid hospitalization. In fact the opposite is true… That said, particularly on any bureaucracy- more money doesn’t solve issues. In fact, more money often makes more bureaucracy. Obviously that’s no…

The UK has been spending less on healthcare as a percentage of GDP than comparable European countries, Germany and France.

I agree more money doesn't solve the issue, especially as so much money was wasted on Covid testing and private beds that were never used.

However in my lifetime the difference in healthcare spending between New Labour and Conservative has been noticeable.

https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SH.XPD.CHEX.GD.ZS?end=2...

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