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Silent crisis of soaring excess deaths in Britain is only tip of the iceberg

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Re: Silent crisis of soaring excess deaths in Britain is only tip of the iceberg

#41

Post by thrown_22 »

jajahusjsna wrote: post #8

Covid is one aspect of this. Another is the massive. underfunding of the NHS over the last decade. This has become much more evident post-covid thanks to the backlogs. - Getting a GP to see you in person is now quite difficult (they want to do everything via phone). - Seeing your GP (depending on your area) can involve a 2-3 week wait and waiting in an hours long phone queue. - When you are referred to hospital for t…

>Unfortunately without a change in government we’re not going to get those and people are seemingly more concerned about refugees arriving by dinghy than health care.

One can be concerned about both.

If we ever had a socially conservative and economically progressive government they would stay in power until they died. I mean in the US they literally had to add an amendment to make sure it didn't happen again: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twenty-second_Amendment_to_the...

Re: Silent crisis of soaring excess deaths in Britain is only tip of the iceberg

#42

Post by julianlam »

sudden_dystopia wrote: post #23

Wouldn’t a reasonable hypothesis try to rule out the vaccine? I’m not anti vaccine, I received the vaccine. But if excess death is creeping and it’s not Covid, would t that be one of the first things to rule out? They don’t even indicate that was ruled out, just completely ignored.

Why jump to it when simpler explanations exist?

Delays in diagnosis or no diagnosis at all is likely a more fitting explanation.

Re: Silent crisis of soaring excess deaths in Britain is only tip of the iceberg

#43

Post by mirekrusin »

What if it's related to vaccination?

Do other countries that implemented same the measures see the same pattern?

Do other countries which did not implement those measures are free from this problem?

Seems like relatively easy questions to answer, no?

Re: Silent crisis of soaring excess deaths in Britain is only tip of the iceberg

#44

Post by acallaghan »

rob_c wrote: post #35
verytrivial wrote: post #9

The word "funding" does not appear in this article. The NHS has been systematically underfunded since the Conservative entered power more than a decade ago. The crisis is real, but it is a political choice.

But let's ignore the blairite solution to sell the land and get further into debt and refuse to take more money from the populace or detach NHS funding from state pensions...

I mean blaming the PM that was last in power over 15 years ago seems a stretch?

Re: Silent crisis of soaring excess deaths in Britain is only tip of the iceberg

#45

Post by lettergram »

jajahusjsna wrote: post #8

Covid is one aspect of this. Another is the massive. underfunding of the NHS over the last decade. This has become much more evident post-covid thanks to the backlogs. - Getting a GP to see you in person is now quite difficult (they want to do everything via phone). - Seeing your GP (depending on your area) can involve a 2-3 week wait and waiting in an hours long phone queue. - When you are referred to hospital for t…

> Another is the massive. underfunding of the NHS over the last decade. This has become much more evident post-covid thanks to the backlogs.

If this were the true issue, the excess deaths would have been starting at peak Covid hospitalization. In fact the opposite is true…

That said, particularly on any bureaucracy- more money doesn’t solve issues. In fact, more money often makes more bureaucracy. Obviously that’s not only the case, but it’s one I’d seriously consider here.

Re: Silent crisis of soaring excess deaths in Britain is only tip of the iceberg

#46

Post by thrown_22 »

solar-ice wrote: post #40
jajahusjsna wrote: post #8

Covid is one aspect of this. Another is the massive. underfunding of the NHS over the last decade. This has become much more evident post-covid thanks to the backlogs. - Getting a GP to see you in person is now quite difficult (they want to do everything via phone). - Seeing your GP (depending on your area) can involve a 2-3 week wait and waiting in an hours long phone queue. - When you are referred to hospital for t…

Indeed; the reason people exonerate it is that the Tories have been threatening the population with a dismantling and privatisation of the NHS for over a decade now, and that's not what anyone wants. People want the NHS to work, to be funded and managed appropriately. A primary reason it doesn't is the Tories crippling it.

The left has somehow ended up as the party of the political managerial class instead of the working class, this is one of the best explanations why we're in such a weird place where the socialists are all trust fund kids who would rather have the working class arrested than talk to them.

Re: Silent crisis of soaring excess deaths in Britain is only tip of the iceberg

#47

Post by nibbleshifter »

ogogmad wrote: post #38
jajahusjsna wrote: post #8

Covid is one aspect of this. Another is the massive. underfunding of the NHS over the last decade. This has become much more evident post-covid thanks to the backlogs. - Getting a GP to see you in person is now quite difficult (they want to do everything via phone). - Seeing your GP (depending on your area) can involve a 2-3 week wait and waiting in an hours long phone queue. - When you are referred to hospital for t…

One person I'm speaking to claims that the NHS hires too many bureaucrats who are impossible to fire, and who he believes provide the doctors with too much paperwork. He suggests that instead of paying those bureaucrats, the money should go to doctors, nurses and equipment. He claims that the NHS gets about the same amount of money - GDP-wise - as other European countries, while underperforming them. They already hir…

I have relatives working in the NHS bureaucracy, even they claim its bloated - there's a fuck tonne of redundancy/duplication of effort and failures to exploit economies of scale, especially in the Trusts system where the same things are replicated dozens of times.

Re: Silent crisis of soaring excess deaths in Britain is only tip of the iceberg

#48

Post by jajahusjsna »

thrown_22 wrote: post #41
jajahusjsna wrote: post #8

Covid is one aspect of this. Another is the massive. underfunding of the NHS over the last decade. This has become much more evident post-covid thanks to the backlogs. - Getting a GP to see you in person is now quite difficult (they want to do everything via phone). - Seeing your GP (depending on your area) can involve a 2-3 week wait and waiting in an hours long phone queue. - When you are referred to hospital for t…

>Unfortunately without a change in government we’re not going to get those and people are seemingly more concerned about refugees arriving by dinghy than health care. One can be concerned about both. If we ever had a socially conservative and economically progressive government they would stay in power until they died. I mean in the US they literally had to add an amendment to make sure it didn't happen again: https:…

>> One can be concerned about both.

I didn’t say that you couldn’t. But by voting for the current day Tory’s you are choosing to decimate the health system and waste money on sending Refugees to Rwanda. It’s idiotic to prioritise that over the NHS.

Re: Silent crisis of soaring excess deaths in Britain is only tip of the iceberg

#49

Post by kurthr »

neverrroot wrote: post #29

The Great Barrington Declaration, unfortunately cancelled by mass media and the people in power.

So, if they don't die in the first wave of COVID, they need to die of underfunding?

I mean sterilizing immunity through infection is now known (through many thousands of documented re-infections and likely hundreds of millions) to be both irresponsible and a failure. However, if the goal was to reduce the long term cost of the British medical system through the death of it's oldest and most expensive, then perhaps there is still hope by simply reducing funds?

Re: Silent crisis of soaring excess deaths in Britain is only tip of the iceberg

#50

Post by thrown_22 »

verytrivial wrote: post #9

The word "funding" does not appear in this article. The NHS has been systematically underfunded since the Conservative entered power more than a decade ago. The crisis is real, but it is a political choice.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthan...

In 1997 the NHS had 1/5th the budget it does today. Do we think that service has improved 5 times in the period?

Like universities the NHS has been eaten from the inside by administrators whose sole purpose is to keep doctors from doing actual work. Talk to a nurse and 4/5th of the bullshit they have to deal with is pointless paper work.

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