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Ask HN: I automated part of someone else's job in my free time – how to proceed?

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Re: Ask HN: I automated part of someone else's job in my free time – how to proceed?

#111

Post by tharne »

TaylorAlexander wrote: post #77
vincnetas wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't forget to automate defence (yah that one, military), and how to prevent any interested party in controlling that automated defence system.

I think Americans over estimate how much investment in defense is needed. Massive defense spending is needed when you’re abusing the rest of the world. Less so if you’re not.

> I think Americans over estimate how much investment in defense is needed.

I don't think you understand the concept of risk, particularly as it pertains to things like war and armed conflict.

Defense spending always looks excessive and unnecessary until you need it. Saying a country overestimates how much defense spending they need is like saying you don't need car insurance because you've never been in an accident.

Wars are similar to car accidents. We're really bad at predicting when we're going to get into one and it can be a whole lot worse than we ever could have imagined.

Additionally for most western countries, the U.S. military acts as a fail-safe of sorts. If Belgium, for instance, underestimates their defense needs they know at some point the U.S. will jump in to help them if need be, which is largely what's happening in Ukraine right now.

By contrast, if the U.S. underestimates its defense needs and suddenly finds itself under attack, say by the Chinese, who exactly would come and save them?

Re: Ask HN: I automated part of someone else's job in my free time – how to proceed?

#112

Post by tharne »

throwaway5959 wrote: post #49
rodbod wrote: post #36

Decades ago I was temping at data entry and very quickly figured out how to streamline/script much of the process. It didn't occur to me that I should keep this eldritch knowledge to myself, so I showed (permanent, salaried) colleagues what I was doing. A week later I was out of a job. Pretty dumb, huh? I don't think this would happen to you, but you might lose some other folks their job. Something for you to conside…

Did they at least give you some kind of severance?

He said he was a temp, so I very much doubt he got severance.

Re: Ask HN: I automated part of someone else's job in my free time – how to proceed?

#113

Post by [deleted] »

CodeWriter23 wrote: post #13
thatguy0900 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's implying that a wolf would sacrifice his fellow workers job to advance for themselves, while a sheep would stay with his flock of fellow coworkers and not release the project.

Almost. I'm implying a wolf would feed on their fellow workers to advance themselves and the other wolves.

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: I automated part of someone else's job in my free time – how to proceed?

#114

Post by ipaddr »

jeroenhd wrote: post #65
Simon_O_Rourke wrote: post #51

Somewhat related to your predicament, a good friend of mine was working data entry in Verizon in the early 2010s, and automated his entire job with VBA. Never told anyone on his team, least of all his manager. Spent a year or so doing no more than 10 minutes work per day. Learned Python and after a year revealed all and left for a better job. Apparently there was chaos afterwards. So, either tell your direct manager…

I don't understand why you would reveal that you automated your job after all that time. If the contract states that you get paid in hours rather than tasks per time period, you might end up losing a lawsuit. Just leave and say nothing. Don't give your code to someone else, don't give it to the company, just go. Even without the potential lawsuit, on the odd chance that your future employer ever calls up your previou…

Frame it as I built a tool to add guardrails and perhaps it might be useful to the next developer or not.

Re: Ask HN: I automated part of someone else's job in my free time – how to proceed?

#115

Post by ipaddr »

TaylorAlexander wrote: post #82
paulcole wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean by “decent”? In the US at least, we’re going to get a point in the next few generations where it’s going to get harder and harder for many to find meaning in life. Increased automation, increased climate change, decreased financial security for people who expected to be secure. It’s going to be rough.

Collective ownership of automation means everyone sees the benefits from automation. Decent means a life better than that for 90% of Americans today (but available to anyone worldwide). But “better” is subjective and I’m talking about good healthy food, a clean safe home, good clothes, transportation, and a wealth of free time to spend with others. And people can still work for more if they want. I just don’t think t…

If open source has taught us anything open community innovation will create a lot of what we want to work on but much less of what we need.

Re: Ask HN: I automated part of someone else's job in my free time – how to proceed?

#116

Post by lazide »

antisthenes wrote: post #91
Nextgrid wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Just leave and say nothing Or stay and say nothing? Why prematurely kill the golden goose?

Data entry jobs have a pretty hard cap on how much you can get paid. Besides no one wants to see a person's resume say "data entry" for 10 years. That would be shooting your own prospects in the foot.

If you have another gig and did something useful during that time, I can't imagine you'd be listing 'data entry' on the resume?

Re: Ask HN: I automated part of someone else's job in my free time – how to proceed?

#118

Post by TaylorAlexander »

tharne wrote: post #111
TaylorAlexander wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Americans over estimate how much investment in defense is needed. Massive defense spending is needed when you’re abusing the rest of the world. Less so if you’re not.

> I think Americans over estimate how much investment in defense is needed. I don't think you understand the concept of risk, particularly as it pertains to things like war and armed conflict. Defense spending always looks excessive and unnecessary until you need it. Saying a country overestimates how much defense spending they need is like saying you don't need car insurance because you've never been in an accident.…

I understand that the USA has chosen a strategy of global imperialism as a plan for maintaining control of world affairs. Our military occupies or encircles nearly every country on Earth. This is obviously an extremely expensive strategy, and one that no other country has ever chosen.

But all this talk of military spending is orthogonal to my original comment. I am saying we would be better off if washing machines were open source, and the workers at the washing machine factory would be better off if the organization was cooperatively owned and managed. I never suggested abolishing the state. The comment mentioning the military was in error if they thought I was talking about making my own country. You can do what I propose inside the USA, and the government can keep taxing exchanges to fund the largest military the world has ever seen. I have opinions on that, but those opinions don't relate to the idea that non-military technology should be open source. Obviously militaries prefer secrets.

I will say, it is interesting that you say I don't understand risk. The USA does not have the largest army humanity has ever seen in order to manage risk. The USA has this army to maintain power over other countries. Belgium as you mention relies on the USA for some extra defense protection. But this also means that Belgium cannot oppose us. We have covered the globe in US military bases so that we can maintain control. This strategy goes far beyond managing risk. If we merely wanted to manage risk, we could have avoided treating every country south of our border like shit, fostered healthy relationships with them, and after decades of healthy relationships formed a military alliance with them. Then that organization would defend the Americas against foreign invaders, not the USA.

Re: Ask HN: I automated part of someone else's job in my free time – how to proceed?

#119

Post by john_the_writer »

I'd chat with the person who does the job now. Offer to help them out, and automate part of it.. In stages..

I do this when I get technical requests to generate reports. First time I run the sql/code manually.. Then at the third time I build a button, and show the requester the button.

Often they love me, because I saved them hours of work. And I can then we tweak it to make it even better for them.

I 100% don't go through my manager. They'd say no on the effort, or it would be coming top down to that co-worker. I'd rather be a hero to the co-worker. If I've got the skills to give them a better day, then they spread the love. Trust me, it comes back.

Re: Ask HN: I automated part of someone else's job in my free time – how to proceed?

#120

Post by john_the_writer »

twblalock wrote: post #16
thr0wawayf00 wrote: post #14

Why not go to the person whose job you're trying to supplant and show them your POC? Approach from the angle of "this can free you up to do other things" and not "I'm trying to figure out how to replace people". As far as ownership of this project goes, you need to think carefully before making any sort of claim. Depending on the language of your employment agreement, the IP of this project likely belongs to the comp…

> Why not go to the person whose job you're trying to supplant and show them your POC? Approach from the angle of "this can free you up to do other things" and not "I'm trying to figure out how to replace people". No no no. Go to your manager first. Otherwise that other person might tell your manager, who will be very displeased about being blindsided. If you know your manager would react badly, even if they heard ab…

Nah.. if you have a "lets get things done" team then that co-worker might love you. If you've saved them time, then word might get out that you've helped them. If the other person tells your manager it will be "X helped me so much."

They might start asking you to help with other things. Others will hear about it, not as you're trying to step on them, but that you're making their life easier. You could become the "go to person". Then you might get some time to study on the company dime.

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