Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Most laser printer printed pages have tracking watermark

brahmsyellowdots.blogspot.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 109 posts

Re: Most laser printer printed pages have tracking watermark

#41

Post by jasonlotito »

mindslight wrote: post #37
jasonlotito wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US government is made up of people like you. If you really want to enact change, you can. Government officials don't just become government officials. > I didn't create, buy, or even sanction it. But, you choose to live beneath it. If you don't like the rules, you can work to change it. This is a democracy though, so don't think that everyone will blindly agree with you. This obviously assumes you are an American…

> The US government is made up of people like you The whole is not merely the sum of the parts. And the people making up the government are nothing like me. For one, they believe government is a means to itself, while I do not. > If you really want to enact change, you can Citation needed. > you choose to live beneath it hh A one-possibility choice is not a choice. Your unstated assumption is that my personal life sh…

> Citation needed.

You're being purposefully obtuse. I'm sorry everyone doesn't agree with you. Your opinion isn't the only one. Your teenage angst driven post is sad, if only because you really believe what you are spewing.

> I reject this.

Big words for someone who clearly doesn't.

Really, if you're being honest here in this post, I can't help but think your a bigger fraud then the people who supposedly shun.

Re: Most laser printer printed pages have tracking watermark

#43

Post by jholman »

jasonlotito wrote: post #32
mindslight wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean it's mine? I didn't create, buy, or even sanction it. The only options I have are avoidance and general scorn. Printer manufacturers are the ones voluntarily saying 'yes, master'. I have no control over any aspect of that situation.

The US government is made up of people like you. If you really want to enact change, you can. Government officials don't just become government officials. > I didn't create, buy, or even sanction it. But, you choose to live beneath it. If you don't like the rules, you can work to change it. This is a democracy though, so don't think that everyone will blindly agree with you. This obviously assumes you are an American…

> This obviously assumes you are an American. If you aren't, then I really don't see the issue.

Let me start by supposing, as I think we all do, that this date-and-serial watermarking is indeed a form of spying on users of printers. Let me further suppose, perhaps more contentiously, that this international spying conspiracy of printer manufacturers is actually directed by some single nation-state (not an international conspiracy of nation-states), and that that state is the U.S.

EDIT: Regarding the leadership of the conspiracy, on the one hand the EFF apparently has FOIA responses that confirm that the U.S. is complicit, but otoh apparently the Dutch (and other countries) are using it too, so maybe I'm wrong to suppose that there's a single state at the head of the conspiracy.

It staggers me that you would not see why I would object to a foreign government (the U.S.) spying on me. Obviously it's not the _same_ issue as if my own government were spying on me.

Re: Most laser printer printed pages have tracking watermark

#44

Post by jrockway »

kijin wrote: post #24
ajays wrote: post #18

On a similar (but tangential) note: US currency notes have similar yellow circles, which are detected by photocopiers, which, in turn, then either (a) refuse to photocopy them, or (b) mangle the copy (put vertical bars through it). Try photocopying a $20 bill on a copier and see for yourself.

Careful there. The copier might automatically notify the Secret Service, too. You never know with today's network-enabled copiers...

I doubt that the Secret Service will get there quickly enough to arrest you. I also doubt that they would have enough evidence to arrest you for anything. Putting a $20 bill in a copy machine is not a crime.

Re: Most laser printer printed pages have tracking watermark

#45

Post by mhyee »

unreal37 wrote: post #42
Tichy wrote: post #2

That is really, really old news :-)

And kind of a pointless story. The guy sent off a couple of letters, and got a form letter response from everyone he talked to. And gave up. Not really HN worthy.

He gave up in the end, but he did persevere for three months and escalated it up to the president of Lexmark Canada. I found the story pretty interesting.

Re: Most laser printer printed pages have tracking watermark

#46

Post by UrLicht »

ajays wrote: post #18

On a similar (but tangential) note: US currency notes have similar yellow circles, which are detected by photocopiers, which, in turn, then either (a) refuse to photocopy them, or (b) mangle the copy (put vertical bars through it). Try photocopying a $20 bill on a copier and see for yourself.

I did that with a $50 bill once on my company's big office copier just to see what it would look like (uh, I swear) and was pretty floored when I saw the copy come out with stripes through it. I tried it with every other denomination I could find, and if I remember correctly bills at or below $5 don't have that feature (at least not at the time).

Re: Most laser printer printed pages have tracking watermark

#47

Post by ck2 »

The real crime here is there is no documented law these companies are following.

They are obviously doing it under legal pressure - so where is the law on the books?

This means it's a secret law that (at least the) American public is unable to inspect and attempt to abolish.

Perhaps it's a secret part of the DMCA? What other laws do we not know about?

Re: Most laser printer printed pages have tracking watermark

#48

Post by mindslight »

jasonlotito wrote: post #41
mindslight wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The US government is made up of people like you The whole is not merely the sum of the parts. And the people making up the government are nothing like me. For one, they believe government is a means to itself, while I do not. > If you really want to enact change, you can Citation needed. > you choose to live beneath it hh A one-possibility choice is not a choice. Your unstated assumption is that my personal life sh…

> Citation needed. You're being purposefully obtuse. I'm sorry everyone doesn't agree with you. Your opinion isn't the only one. Your teenage angst driven post is sad, if only because you really believe what you are spewing. > I reject this. Big words for someone who clearly doesn't. Really, if you're being honest here in this post, I can't help but think your a bigger fraud then the people who supposedly shun.

Well, I can't really respond to personal attacks with anything other than 'NUH-UH!'.

We're just coming from radically different assumptions.

I've been there, thinking my vote mattered, thinking that conservatives just needed some enlightenment (if you prefer the converse - thinking that progressives just need some experience with the real world). Thinking that change happens eventually once enough people wake up and get the message.

But then I realized that we're all just fighting ourselves over surface issues. So much passion is poured into arguing to preserve the littlest bits of freedom while the pedagogues fan the simplistic tyranny of the other "side's" masses. Meanwhile, the organizations seeking increased importance and authority keep their eyes on the prize and offer their 'solutions' to the complex fundamental meta-issues. A battle may be won from time to time, but the system's invasion of and control over your life ratchets ever forward.

I certainly don't have a concrete solution to this whole mess, but the least I can do is avoid contributing to its legitimacy.

Re: Most laser printer printed pages have tracking watermark

#49

Post by kijin »

sliverstorm wrote: post #35
kijin wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't that why actual money has all those fancy strips and bumps? Canada just introduced $100 polymer notes this week. It's even partially transparent. Good luck faking that with consumer-grade laser printers. (Color inkjets might work better on transparent sheets.)

Why on earth would anyone bother forging Canadian currency? Just ribbing on ya :p It is true, there are other preventative measures, but any one measure can be beaten. It's like computer security- any computer can be hacked, it's just a game of making it hard enough to hack that it is not worth it, or takes too long.

Sure, any anti-counterfeit measure can be beaten, but it is certainly possible to design banknotes in such a way that consumer-grade printers can't produce anything remotely resembling a real banknote. Then there will be no excuse for spying on citizens' everyday printing activities.

The fact that this alternative is not even on the table adds to the impression that the U.S. government, as usual, is trying to use Big Bro techniques as a quick fix instead of coming up with real solutions.

BTW, I'm not sure if anyone prints fake Canadian money, but a few years ago some dude in Germany tried to print millions of dollars worth of fake Canadian Tire money :)

Re: Most laser printer printed pages have tracking watermark

#50

Post by mrtron »

sliverstorm wrote: post #35
kijin wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't that why actual money has all those fancy strips and bumps? Canada just introduced $100 polymer notes this week. It's even partially transparent. Good luck faking that with consumer-grade laser printers. (Color inkjets might work better on transparent sheets.)

Why on earth would anyone bother forging Canadian currency? Just ribbing on ya :p It is true, there are other preventative measures, but any one measure can be beaten. It's like computer security- any computer can be hacked, it's just a game of making it hard enough to hack that it is not worth it, or takes too long.

As a Canadian I can't stand your attempt at humour (sarcasm++).

The Canadian mint actually produces a lot of coinage for other countries, is one of the most advanced in new techs, etc. They tend to sell out all of their collection coins, especially the large gold ones (including a 1kg coin).

The game of making it hard enough/expensive enough to have it not worthwhile is the goal of every currency. The new 100$ bill definitely succeeds.

Post reply on HN