Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Ask HN: I automated part of someone else's job in my free time – how to proceed?

news.ycombinator.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 131 posts

Re: Ask HN: I automated part of someone else's job in my free time – how to proceed?

#41

Post by mattnewton »

UmYeahNo wrote: post #2

You've discovered the strategy of: Come up with a way to get people laid off so you can monetize a portion of their salaries for yourself. The cynical me says they weren't smart enough to automate away their own work (so they could be assigned more, different work), so eff 'em, right? That is, until someone else automates away your job. The business me says, you found and fixed an inefficiency, so capitalize on it. W…

> The cynical me says they weren't smart enough to automate away their own work (so they could be assigned more, different work), so eff 'em, right? That is, until someone else automates away your job.

Sort of besides the point but I wish someone _would_ automate my job so I can find even more interesting things to work on; I’m trying and I haven’t figured out how to yet. Yes, this is obviously only a position someone can feel if they are blessed with either lots of ability or economic security, but could we change that?

I know the problem is the resulting economic hit and not the having of a job or not, and I wish we had more of a safety net and support for people shuffling to better economic activities rather than being stuck in a local maxima with potentially disastrous switching costs. Things like UBI, public option healthcare, free state sponsored college degrees, and government sponsored vocational training have a decent record, and I wonder how we can scale them up past things like the GI bill.

Re: Ask HN: I automated part of someone else's job in my free time – how to proceed?

#42

Post by egypturnash »

UmYeahNo wrote: post #2

You've discovered the strategy of: Come up with a way to get people laid off so you can monetize a portion of their salaries for yourself. The cynical me says they weren't smart enough to automate away their own work (so they could be assigned more, different work), so eff 'em, right? That is, until someone else automates away your job. The business me says, you found and fixed an inefficiency, so capitalize on it. W…

Cynical me says maybe some of them were smart enough to automate away their own work and are slacking off like crazy. Presenting your automation solution to the bosses is marking you as a class enemy because now they will be expected to do a lot more for the same pay.

Re: Ask HN: I automated part of someone else's job in my free time – how to proceed?

#43

Post by HWR_14 »

mattnewton wrote: post #41
UmYeahNo wrote: post #2

You've discovered the strategy of: Come up with a way to get people laid off so you can monetize a portion of their salaries for yourself. The cynical me says they weren't smart enough to automate away their own work (so they could be assigned more, different work), so eff 'em, right? That is, until someone else automates away your job. The business me says, you found and fixed an inefficiency, so capitalize on it. W…

> The cynical me says they weren't smart enough to automate away their own work (so they could be assigned more, different work), so eff 'em, right? That is, until someone else automates away your job. Sort of besides the point but I wish someone _would_ automate my job so I can find even more interesting things to work on; I’m trying and I haven’t figured out how to yet. Yes, this is obviously only a position someon…

> but I wish someone _would_ automate my job so I can find even more interesting things to work on

What makes you think you would work on "more interesting things" as opposed to "nothing". That is, why would your employer keep you on as opposed to firing you.

Re: Ask HN: I automated part of someone else's job in my free time – how to proceed?

#44

Post by mattnewton »

HWR_14 wrote: post #43
mattnewton wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The cynical me says they weren't smart enough to automate away their own work (so they could be assigned more, different work), so eff 'em, right? That is, until someone else automates away your job. Sort of besides the point but I wish someone _would_ automate my job so I can find even more interesting things to work on; I’m trying and I haven’t figured out how to yet. Yes, this is obviously only a position someon…

> but I wish someone _would_ automate my job so I can find even more interesting things to work on What makes you think you would work on "more interesting things" as opposed to "nothing". That is, why would your employer keep you on as opposed to firing you.

They might fire me yes and I would find another job (or try my hand at consulting or making my own business).

But, to me, that would’ve been preferable to doing busy make-work, or worse lobbying to keep the inefficiencies that provide me the busywork I use to justify a salary. Once something becomes automate-able, I think it should be. I have never seen software people at the big co FAANG companies I’ve worked at get let go because their core job was automated, only reassigned out of dead end roles that never would have gotten them promoted. I understand this position is only possible to hold alongside all those privileges.

Re: Ask HN: I automated part of someone else's job in my free time – how to proceed?

#45

Post by TaylorAlexander »

mattnewton wrote: post #41
UmYeahNo wrote: post #2

You've discovered the strategy of: Come up with a way to get people laid off so you can monetize a portion of their salaries for yourself. The cynical me says they weren't smart enough to automate away their own work (so they could be assigned more, different work), so eff 'em, right? That is, until someone else automates away your job. The business me says, you found and fixed an inefficiency, so capitalize on it. W…

> The cynical me says they weren't smart enough to automate away their own work (so they could be assigned more, different work), so eff 'em, right? That is, until someone else automates away your job. Sort of besides the point but I wish someone _would_ automate my job so I can find even more interesting things to work on; I’m trying and I haven’t figured out how to yet. Yes, this is obviously only a position someon…

I genuinely believe we can make a world where no one is required to work for survival. We could intentionally automate as much as possible while also ensuring that automation is collectively owned. Then we could all collect dividends on our system with ample time off for "what we will" as the activists fighting for the 8 hour work day used to say.

I believe strongly that the current economic system is effective primarily at concentrating wealth at the top and using the general population as a pool of cheap desperate labor. I believe we can actually generate more wealth if we abandon intellectual property and develop technologies specifically to free people from toil in an open, community-oriented way. Of course this will be a fight because those who hold the reins of power today have no interest in diluting their power.

"But automation is expensive" - well engineering development is expensive. Which is why I think we should spread the costs out as much as possible - make everything open source, so none of the work is repeated, and anyone in the world hungry to get in on the action can contribute, instead of secretive siloed orgs spending a hundred million on some secret sauce for one single application, without sharing the benefit of that work for all the adjacent applications. Instead smaller investments distributed throughout the world will lead to large scale innovation of the crowd, the way we saw 3D printer development explode AFTER the patents expired. Because 1000 people working on an idea get way more done that one well funded organization in many cases. This is exactly the kind of innovation that patents extinguish, and worldwide agreements ensure patents have widespread enforcement.

We all need the same basic necessities, so there is so much overlap, that these systems built by the crowd could rapidly mature.

Eventually we could envision a system that can function with just 10% workforce participation, as people basically volunteer for maintenance and development. Before then we need to educate as many people as possible on engineering, robotics, and computer science.

But the end goal of a world where a highly automated "means of production" is held in community ownership is I think very important. Working in a world of privately held companies with closed source engineering leads to VERY different engineering requirements, and fails to realize benefits of community based engineering development. There are people all over the world that need what you are developing, and some of them have the time and energy to make it their own and contribute their own spin. But only if we make that community.

I have tried to discuss these concepts on my youtube channel in this latest video, though it was unscripted and I'd like to produce a clearer scripted version in the future:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sx_2-xwWJUk

EDIT: For additional motivation, I highly recommend this talk by Jenny Odell called "How To Do Nothing". I feel so strongly that we are wasting ourselves away at jobs that could be automated away, and this talk really captures some of what the alternatives could be for the human psyche:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izjlP9qtmBU

Re: Ask HN: I automated part of someone else's job in my free time – how to proceed?

#46

Post by linuxftw »

There's lots of useless replies in here so far, and some half-baked ones. First, determine whether you have an intellectual property assignment for this idea. This could be determined by local laws, a contract you signed, and the manner in which the idea was created an implemented.

Many companies and jurisdictions don't have an explicit intellectual property assignment. Let's assume that's the case. Let's also assume that you came up with the idea outside of working hours, and utilized your own software, equipment, internet connection, etc to build this thing.

Next, consider whether or not this invention of yours is applicable to others in the same industry, or different industries that need to accomplish a similar task. If that's the case, then you might have something valuable.

If you have something valuable, you might want to look into filing a patent. When you file the patent, and if it gets approved (can take years), you now have exclusive rights to the invention. Patents in software are more how the 'process' than the actual code itself. EG: "use computer software to take values from data source X, do something useful here, output results to Y."

You should consult with a patent attorney if you think it's really valuable. You'll need to perform some research to determine if the invention is already patented.

Now, once you've applied for the patent, and you believe that you don't have an intellectual property assignment favoring your employer for it, would be the time to offer to demonstrate the software. The software should not be present on company machines, etc. You probably want to work out the exact steps with your patent attorney on the protocol here.

Even though it make take years to be awarded the patent, if the patent is found valid, then you'll have coverage from the time of filing, at least in the US. This means if the company steals your idea and implements it themselves, they've stolen your patent, and would be liable for damages. What I think the best outcome is you agree to license the product to the company for $X/yr.

Now, all that's a heavy handed approach and might lead to litigation, so consider your best options carefully.

If you decide the above is too much, or the invention is not that valuable, or you think it's not worth the trouble, I would bring it up to management that you have an idea to solve the problem, but don't mention you have the solution. Negotiate a bonus, promotion, or raise for the implementation. Unfortunately for you, they can just decide to make you work on it during the course of your normal day, and you'll get nothing.

Re: Ask HN: I automated part of someone else's job in my free time – how to proceed?

#47

Post by DiggyJohnson »

mattnewton wrote: post #44
HWR_14 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but I wish someone _would_ automate my job so I can find even more interesting things to work on What makes you think you would work on "more interesting things" as opposed to "nothing". That is, why would your employer keep you on as opposed to firing you.

They might fire me yes and I would find another job (or try my hand at consulting or making my own business). But, to me, that would’ve been preferable to doing busy make-work, or worse lobbying to keep the inefficiencies that provide me the busywork I use to justify a salary. Once something becomes automate-able, I think it should be. I have never seen software people at the big co FAANG companies I’ve worked at get…

But why do you not see or feel that if you’re capable of doing more interesting work than your current role that you don’t need wait for automation to make you redundant to switch roles.

Re: Ask HN: I automated part of someone else's job in my free time – how to proceed?

#48

Post by dvfjsdhgfv »

dgfitz wrote: post #38
UmYeahNo wrote: post #2

You've discovered the strategy of: Come up with a way to get people laid off so you can monetize a portion of their salaries for yourself. The cynical me says they weren't smart enough to automate away their own work (so they could be assigned more, different work), so eff 'em, right? That is, until someone else automates away your job. The business me says, you found and fixed an inefficiency, so capitalize on it. W…

The cynic in ME says: establish an LLC, find a front man/woman to sell it back to your current company, and rake.

Ignoring whether it's a good idea, this is not trivial these days - both parties need to really trust each other given the number of ways things can go wrong.

Re: Ask HN: I automated part of someone else's job in my free time – how to proceed?

#49

Post by throwaway5959 »

rodbod wrote: post #36

Decades ago I was temping at data entry and very quickly figured out how to streamline/script much of the process. It didn't occur to me that I should keep this eldritch knowledge to myself, so I showed (permanent, salaried) colleagues what I was doing. A week later I was out of a job. Pretty dumb, huh? I don't think this would happen to you, but you might lose some other folks their job. Something for you to conside…

Did they at least give you some kind of severance?

Re: Ask HN: I automated part of someone else's job in my free time – how to proceed?

#50

Post by bennysomething »

I'd stop overthinking this, some of the answers you are getting here are ridiculous.

Show it to your manager.

Your job is to add value, that's it. You can add value by automating this process. You did it outside of normal working hours, so what? I'd guess most people here work extra hours.

Post reply on HN