The erosion of the Mac experience • Hacker News Board

Re: The erosion of the Mac experience

#201

Post by chongli » Sat, Aug 20, 2022, 8:42 AM UTC

Lio wrote: post #192

gsinclair wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The old macOS didn’t provide any cloud storage option, and the new one does, for a fee. That seems like progress, not begging for rent or a reason to be nostalgic.

Fair enough but if I decline once why does it need to keep nagging me to upgrade? Likewise, if I just want to play music, and I decline the free introductory offer of an Apple Music subscription, why does it keep offering? Like newsletter popups, having something get between me and what I want to do is annoying. It’s the creeping “Not right now” , “Maybe later” , “We’ll in your face again after a random timer” bullsh…

I agree with you in principle. I just take exception to the claim that this is somehow worse than Windows where you have pervasive 3rd party ads (including telemetry) and no way to opt out.

Frankly, I am rather pessimistic with the industry as a whole. Problems never seem to stay solved. There is constant churn, constant disruption of workflow and UI patterns. Constant change for its own sake and no reflection on what is really important.

Re: The erosion of the Mac experience

#202

Post by vr46 » Sat, Aug 20, 2022, 8:53 AM UTC

ricardobayes wrote: post #183

llanowarelves wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. In my experience, Windows "just works". And when it comes to working on graphics-intensive applications, and using commercial software packages it's a shoo-in.

For all the hate MS gets, windows 11 is pretty much perfect. Never had any issues with it whatsoever. Even teams runs well on it, not so much on Mac from what I hear. "I can't share my screen" "Teams has crashed" I would be furious if my 2k EUR Mac couldn't run a chat app.

Teams is a poorly-built app, a terrible experience and hardly any kind of benchmark for the quality of a Mac.

Re: The erosion of the Mac experience

#203

Post by Lio » Sat, Aug 20, 2022, 8:58 AM UTC

chongli wrote: post #201

Lio wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fair enough but if I decline once why does it need to keep nagging me to upgrade? Likewise, if I just want to play music, and I decline the free introductory offer of an Apple Music subscription, why does it keep offering? Like newsletter popups, having something get between me and what I want to do is annoying. It’s the creeping “Not right now” , “Maybe later” , “We’ll in your face again after a random timer” bullsh…

I agree with you in principle. I just take exception to the claim that this is somehow worse than Windows where you have pervasive 3rd party ads (including telemetry) and no way to opt out. Frankly, I am rather pessimistic with the industry as a whole. Problems never seem to stay solved. There is constant churn, constant disruption of workflow and UI patterns. Constant change for its own sake and no reflection on wha…

Yeah I think that’s my take on it all too.

Windows is… not for me either.

It seems like after a certain level of complexity product design is a very difficult thing to do.

My guess is that few people have the skill to really get product refinement just right over the long term. So you end up with either stagnation, where people are afraid to improve things or random unnecessary changes that make stuff worse.

Re: The erosion of the Mac experience

#204

Post by barrenko » Sat, Aug 20, 2022, 9:23 AM UTC

hammyhavoc wrote: post #54

threeseed wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Macs used to be for professionals Makes you wonder who is then buying these expensive MacBook Pros, Mac Studios and Mac Pros. I guess it's those grandmas needing 28 cores for their recipes.

It does indeed make you wonder considering the top composers are on Windows running Cubase/Nuendo, almost everybody in game dev is on Windows or Linux, and most of Hollywood's VFX teams are on Linux or Windows integrating with Da Vinci Resolve.

There are a million "creators" in the middle that Apple and co. serve perfectly bar none. Just look at Procreate and similar music making apps.

Re: The erosion of the Mac experience

#205

Post by barrenko » Sat, Aug 20, 2022, 9:24 AM UTC

hammyhavoc wrote: post #41

happyopossum wrote: post #20

I have been hearing this for almost 2 decades now, as long as I’ve been following the ‘community’. Meanwhile, in my real life, my parents, wife, kids, and friends, are all happier than they ever ever been with their latest MacBooks and macOS. Things like iCloud photo syncing, universal control, and airdrop feel boring to us, but they make the computing experience feel pretty much like living in the future for them.

Your parents, kids et cetera aren't power users though. Macs used to be for professionals, but Apple started seriously chasing the consumer demographic with the original iMac.

You are really not getting how "a professional" has changed. Apple does, kaching kaching.

Re: The erosion of the Mac experience

#206

Post by WastingMyTime89 » Sat, Aug 20, 2022, 9:25 AM UTC

lastangryman wrote: post #133

I feel like I may be the only developer that prefers Windows to MacOs. I really, really just do not get the "Mac Experience". It feels so clunky and counter intuitive. - Why does the alt tab equivalent cycle through applications first, and I need another shortcut to cycle through the windows of that application? When I have an IDE with 5x instances, hosting different projects, it's a pain switching back to the projec…

I think it’s mostly linked to what you are used to.

I never Alt+Tab on macOS because I am used to using Exposé and the Windows equivalent frustrates me to no end with its extremely slow animation, same things with virtual desktops which feel very clunky on Windows but works fine on macOS.

Re: The erosion of the Mac experience

#207

Post by mrtedbear » Sat, Aug 20, 2022, 9:27 AM UTC

phasersout wrote: post #107

drawingthesun wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Moved on to where? Windows has adverts in the start menu! Desktop Linux GUI is still painful and really only suitable for those who love to tinker. Since I moved to Mac from Windows I’m thankful for macOS even if it could be better, it’s still much more usable than the alternatives. I find myself spending more time on my professional work and less time fixing driver issues or fighting annoying in OS ads.

I run PopOS on a Thinkbook and overall the experience is more hassle free than my Windows-System these days.

I'm a Ubuntu user but always install the PopOS shell for the wonderful tiling window manager.

It's such a convenient way to manage the desktop space and credit to System76 for making it available to other Gnome-based distros.

https://support.system76.com/articles/pop-shell/

Re: The erosion of the Mac experience

#208

Post by barrenko » Sat, Aug 20, 2022, 9:28 AM UTC

This whole rant touches on the true topic at the heart of this. Software developer a.k.a the programmer used to be the key person behind everything. Just like brick layer or road builder. But now that the roads have been (mostly) built, or so it seems, what are the professions in the spotlight, and even more importantly, in the shadow?

Re: The erosion of the Mac experience

#209

Post by WastingMyTime89 » Sat, Aug 20, 2022, 9:29 AM UTC

ricardobayes wrote: post #183

llanowarelves wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. In my experience, Windows "just works". And when it comes to working on graphics-intensive applications, and using commercial software packages it's a shoo-in.

For all the hate MS gets, windows 11 is pretty much perfect. Never had any issues with it whatsoever. Even teams runs well on it, not so much on Mac from what I hear. "I can't share my screen" "Teams has crashed" I would be furious if my 2k EUR Mac couldn't run a chat app.

If someone from MS gets the wrong idea reading this, I can attest than Teams is absolutely awful to use on my 2k EUR Windows 10 machine.

Re: The erosion of the Mac experience

#210

Post by white_dragon88 » Sat, Aug 20, 2022, 9:35 AM UTC

lastangryman wrote: post #133

I feel like I may be the only developer that prefers Windows to MacOs. I really, really just do not get the "Mac Experience". It feels so clunky and counter intuitive. - Why does the alt tab equivalent cycle through applications first, and I need another shortcut to cycle through the windows of that application? When I have an IDE with 5x instances, hosting different projects, it's a pain switching back to the projec…

It’s preferred due to several reasons:

- lack of degradation of performance due to bloated registry, fragmented disks (probably out of date but still hurts my soul to think out) - a control panel that doesn’t suck - several things due to its unix heritage which are far better then windows imo (case sensitive file system, bash/zsh terminal) - lack of concern regarding bloatware installed by vendors - don’t have to crap like dot net c++ extensions and other nonsense just to run something - a more stable, less crashy experience, this is anecdotal but true to me - reliable warranty and support policies, Apple absolutely kicks ass here

I just want to get shit done with minimal auxillary stuff involved. And that’s why I use ios, macOS. Every aspect of it was designed thoughtfully, and not slapped together. I stopped liking windows at version 8 and have never looked back.