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The erosion of the Mac experience

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Re: The erosion of the Mac experience

#191

Post by lastdong »

lastangryman wrote: post #133

I feel like I may be the only developer that prefers Windows to MacOs. I really, really just do not get the "Mac Experience". It feels so clunky and counter intuitive. - Why does the alt tab equivalent cycle through applications first, and I need another shortcut to cycle through the windows of that application? When I have an IDE with 5x instances, hosting different projects, it's a pain switching back to the projec…

I prefer all my apps fullscreen and it’s so easy to swipe left or right to change desktops or between fullscreen apps - life savier when you’re in a single screen (I actually use it with multiple screens too). Windows is only now catching up in 11.

Re: The erosion of the Mac experience

#192

Post by Lio »

gsinclair wrote: post #174
Lio wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is not that paying $4 a month rent isn’t useful to some people. It’s that another group of people want to own a computer that doesn’t beg for rent at all. The old macOS provided that the new Mac, not so much.

The old macOS didn’t provide any cloud storage option, and the new one does, for a fee. That seems like progress, not begging for rent or a reason to be nostalgic.

Fair enough but if I decline once why does it need to keep nagging me to upgrade?

Likewise, if I just want to play music, and I decline the free introductory offer of an Apple Music subscription, why does it keep offering?

Like newsletter popups, having something get between me and what I want to do is annoying.

It’s the creeping “Not right now”, “Maybe later”, “We’ll in your face again after a random timer” bullshit I hate.

Re: The erosion of the Mac experience

#193

Post by sentrms »

geysersam wrote: post #131
drawingthesun wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Moved on to where? Windows has adverts in the start menu! Desktop Linux GUI is still painful and really only suitable for those who love to tinker. Since I moved to Mac from Windows I’m thankful for macOS even if it could be better, it’s still much more usable than the alternatives. I find myself spending more time on my professional work and less time fixing driver issues or fighting annoying in OS ads.

Used Ubuntu for almost a decade now. Wouldn't call myself a tinkerer with respect to the OS, the defaults are totally fine. Drivers are rarely an issue ime. Maybe things have become better since last you tried?

Ubuntu / Linux definitely has come a long way. I used to compile kernels, write X11 config files, now it just works. Timed perfectly with my lack of time / willingness to tinker for hours to get stuff working.

Re: The erosion of the Mac experience

#194

Post by wodenokoto »

lastangryman wrote: post #133

I feel like I may be the only developer that prefers Windows to MacOs. I really, really just do not get the "Mac Experience". It feels so clunky and counter intuitive. - Why does the alt tab equivalent cycle through applications first, and I need another shortcut to cycle through the windows of that application? When I have an IDE with 5x instances, hosting different projects, it's a pain switching back to the projec…

I’m using a windows machine for work and I hate it. Explorer and outlook change application icon depending on what you are doing. I can never find them when I alt-tab.

I can never find anything in word or excel or any other application that use windows style menus. On Mac you at least get a real menu.

I never got used to macOS’ alt-tab when I switched more than a decade ago, but now that I’m back on windows I find that their behavior works even worse. So maybe that’s a “don’t ever try to learn another alt-tab behavior than what you already do now”

> Why are 3rd party applications distributed as Disk Images? Then some as package installers? It's weird and nonsensical.

As if the installation experience on windows is consistent. Some things come as a zipped exe, some as an msi, others as a zip file that extract to an exe which runs an install program.

> Mac hardware feels great, but I just cannot understand why it's the preferred developer platform.

Isn’t that because it comes with a Unix shell? I’m using wsl and only like 1 or 2 gui programs can talk with my Linux files in a reasonable fashion.

Re: The erosion of the Mac experience

#195

Post by account-5 »

firecall wrote: post #184
account-5 wrote: post #152

I first used a computer in 2005-ish. Started with Windows XP. I quickly moved to Ubuntu in maybe 2006 after reading a book about free software, of which I had no knowledge. I've been using Linux at home and windows at work ever since. I've never thought the apple premium was worth the cost especially when I could use decade old hardware (cheap) perfectly fine with modern operating systems. All this being said, every…

"When I'm using it I have to Google how to do simple stuff like copy and paste." Really? everytime? :-)

Actually I got this mixed up with taking a screenshot, which kinda proves my point because I had to Google to find this out. Also no one can say CMD+shift+5 is intuitive to take a screenshot, prtsrn is much easier.

Re: The erosion of the Mac experience

#196

Post by miked85 »

lbwtaylor wrote: post #96
drawingthesun wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Moved on to where? Windows has adverts in the start menu! Desktop Linux GUI is still painful and really only suitable for those who love to tinker. Since I moved to Mac from Windows I’m thankful for macOS even if it could be better, it’s still much more usable than the alternatives. I find myself spending more time on my professional work and less time fixing driver issues or fighting annoying in OS ads.

Apple constantly spams you with popup ads for their cloud services, far worse IMHO than any start menu nonsense. To each their own.

I haven't ever seen a single popup ad for Apple services - what are you referring to?

Re: The erosion of the Mac experience

#197

Post by jdgoesmarching »

1-6 wrote: post #93
Jensson wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Another company that puts users first will eventually arise and take its place. I doubt it, new companies spring up like mushrooms when fields gets disruptively innovated, but big companies tend to stay otherwise. Can see it here, lots of shifts in the biggest companies the first half, while the second half is dominated by Apple, Microsoft, Google, Alibaba, Facebook and Amazon. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSulo…

I was taking apart my Dyson today to clean it out. I was thinking that it was elegant and useful. I sort of like the company because it doesn’t attempt to get in the way and just provides a nice experience for a tad higher price. Then I thought vacuum cleaners have existed for a while now. There’s the Whirlwind, Bissel, Kirby, Electrolux, Hoover, Oreck, Dyson, and most recently iRobot. Each generation had their brand…

This is funny because I just went down a vacuum research rabbit hole and Dysons are despised by many techs and aficionados. Bagless vacuums in general are seen as a downgrade, and Dyson was the biggest hand in pushing their popularity.

My favorite is one vacuum tech who said Dyson’s biggest innovation was having a clear chamber that showed you the moving dust. Not much utility, but great product marketing.

But because this is HN, I look forward to a grizzled vacuum industry veteran coming by to put me in my place.

Re: The erosion of the Mac experience

#198

Post by imron »

caskstrength wrote: post #163
imron wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except for power management, screen sharing under Wayland and certain Bluetooth headsets

I get battery life similar to Windows on my X1. I regularly share my screen on work-related meeting and it works for me without any issues on Gnome with Wayland.

I no longer use a Linux laptop for work but as recently as a year ago, plugging an external monitor/keyboard in to my X14 wouldn’t wake it up (required manually opening and closing the lid), I could use the headphones on AirPods but not the mic, and screen sharing on teams (and a bunch of other video conferencing software) would only work on X11 and not Wayland.

This was running the latest Ubuntu at the time (20, and then 21).

Perhaps things have changed in the last year?

Re: The erosion of the Mac experience

#199

Post by timeon »

skneko wrote: post #161
lastangryman wrote: post #133

I feel like I may be the only developer that prefers Windows to MacOs. I really, really just do not get the "Mac Experience". It feels so clunky and counter intuitive. - Why does the alt tab equivalent cycle through applications first, and I need another shortcut to cycle through the windows of that application? When I have an IDE with 5x instances, hosting different projects, it's a pain switching back to the projec…

Don't worry I'm European and 90% of developers I know think exactly like you (and me). It's just that the HN crowd is typically North American, and people tend to like what they have grown with.

> people tend to like what they have grown with

That is why parent post called mac 'counter intuitive'.

Re: The erosion of the Mac experience

#200

Post by isametry »

stephen_g wrote: post #10
dleslie wrote: post #6

I believe that Apple is strategically choosing to coast on their desktop software while they work to harmonize their mobile, desktop, and entertainment software stacks. Why? Because based on rumors, patents, and the decisions they've made and the actions they've taken (or not taken), it appears as though that Apple believes that in the not so distant future the concept of having a separate mobile device and a computi…

That seems exactly the opposite direction they’ve always gone though. Microsoft tried to have a completely unified PC/tablet experience, where their desktop OS basically became completely tabled focused in Windows 8. Whereas Apple has always made a strong distinction between e.g. the iPad and the Mac, refusing to build a convertible Mac or any Mac with a touch screen…

I hate to remind you this, but Windows 8 was 10 years ago.

At that time, the iPad was only taking baby steps as the blown-up iPod Touch it was. Its selling feature was reading New York Times. In contrast, OS X was at beloved 10.8 Mountain Lion — the version considered by many as the pinnacle of Mac-assed macOS, and the definition of what Apple’s desktop experience should represent.

So yes, in 2012, what you’re saying about “strong distinctions” was completely true. At that time, “computer” was synonymous with “Mac” in the sphere of Apple and its users.

Meanwhile, look at macOS now. Its last design overhaul, 2 years ago, had one goal: Make all control elements bigger, blobbier and simplified.

Last year’s updates were almost exclusively feature parity with iOS and iPadOS, and/or better collaboration of Mac with the other devices.

This year, the lineup of new macOS features consists of:

• better collaboration between Mac and iOS/iPadOS

• ports of two applications (Clock & Weather) from iOS/iPadOS

• redesign of an integral part of the OS, to make it look like iOS/iPadOS

• port of a window management tool which was very clearly designed for the iPad first and only added to Mac as an afterthought.

To say that the writing is on the wall would be an understatement. Yes, Steve Jobs made a clear distinction when introducing the iPad, but from the day he disappeared, Apple has been working steadily to remove that distinction.

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