To me, the only thing more ‘disturbing’ than a system which routinely fails its most vulnerable people by failing to provide adequate care and support for a good quality-of-life is a system which fails its most vulnerable people in that way and then also forces them to continue to suffer indefinitely. I agree that we should not accept a system that does not provide everyone a good chance at a decent quality of life.…
Experts troubled by Canada’s euthanasia laws
111–120 of 247 posts
Re: Experts troubled by Canada’s euthanasia laws
#112You can always pick an extreme example of drooling, pants-shitting, etc. etc. But the problem is that "option to die" usually morphs into "duty to die" and then into "involuntarily dying."
Does it now? Can you cite any examples?
https://www.pbo-dpb.gc.ca/web/default/files/Documents/Report...
"The predicted gross reduction in health care costs amounts to $109.2 million while the cost of administering MAID is estimated at $22.3 million. Thus, the difference between the two represents a net cost reduction for provincial governments of $86.9 million."
Re: Experts troubled by Canada’s euthanasia laws
#113Re: Experts troubled by Canada’s euthanasia laws
#114Earlier quoted context omitted.
I have a very hard time believing that doctors will be suggesting euthanasia to patients who might not otherwise consider it. There is no financial incentive behind it on a personal level for doctors, given Canada's one-payer medical system, and euthanasia is counter to many doctors' interpretation of the Hypocratic oath. You could argue that on a system-level there is an incentive to encourage euthanasia, since it c…
A one payer system doesn’t insulate doctors from personal incentives to cut costs. The details of compensation can easily encourage one time injections over long term care. Even if the injection is poison. I know for a fact that “bounty” type programs are used by Canadian public health authorities, and for-profit actors make money from them. I don’t know if this extends to long-term care scenarios, but there’s nothin…
> Arguably, the horrible US for-profit health system offers stronger protection against this. A dead patient can’t be charged for more services. But a system that equates medical consumption with good care has it’s own set of problems too obvious to mention.
This isn't stronger protection; it just creates a different perverse incentive to effectively drag out someone's suffering.
Re: Experts troubled by Canada’s euthanasia laws
#115> prompting doctors and health workers to suggest the procedure to those who might not otherwise consider it. Please tell me there isn't a financial incentive behind this. The only thing worse than doctors suggesting opioids to those who might not otherwise consider it is doctors suggesting death to those who might not otherwise consider it.
1. Let fully lucid patients make a decision to die.
2. Let partially lucid patients make a decision to die.
3. Let family members of non-lucid patient makes a decision to die.
4. Let doctor make a decision for a patient who "would clearly want to die if they could speak".
Re: Experts troubled by Canada’s euthanasia laws
#116Apnews, like Facebook, needs sensationalist content to sell ads.
You could perhaps argue that since their customers probably get their money primarily through ads so AP needs to generate sensationalist content to keep them happy.
They (and perhaps Thomson Reuters) themselves don't need ads to make money that is not their business model (while they do have ads revenue as well it is not key to their business )
That isn't to say AP's quality has not dropped over the years it certainly has. It seems more like given the pay journo's make these days, top talent is simply no longer interested in the field. Economic pressures of online journalism does not reward knowledgeable people taking the time to write well informed pieces, rather content mills are more likely to make money with low quality output.
To me this is more a reflection of us as consumers not paying for quality rather than industry which merely adapts to what users want and pay for ( whether with subscriptions or eye balls)
[1]https://www.ap.org/about/annual-report/2021/ap-by-the-number...
Re: Experts troubled by Canada’s euthanasia laws
#117Earlier quoted context omitted.
I’d note that the hospital administration was mentioning this, rather than a particular doctor providing care. Or, the former has a financial incentive to keep care costs low (especially given the current government in Ontario).
The one person named was an administrator, but it's not particularly clear who the "staffers" were. It's possible some of them were doctors, but it's hard to say. That said, I feel like the point here was that it wasn't likely to be pushed at people who hadn't asked, and yet it was, not that it was uniquely bad coming from a doctor vs. an administrator.
Re: Experts troubled by Canada’s euthanasia laws
#118Re: Experts troubled by Canada’s euthanasia laws
#119It is entirely possible that there should be changes to the laws, but involving families is a terrible idea. You aren't going to get rational decision making if you ask someone about their mother wanting to die. You'd be lucky of you didn't get someone screaming profanity at the medical staff for an hour.
Re: Experts troubled by Canada’s euthanasia laws
#120Is there anything like a two-component drug, that you can get the parts of from two different sources, mix yourself, and kill yourself with in a humane way? In that case perhaps part A can be prescribed by one doctor, and part B by another, so no doctor is able to singlehandedly prescribe this lethal drug. I don't know if this solves anything, but it puts friction in they system, which I think is needed.
I'm 100 in favour of euthanasia for people who are suffering with no end in sight. If I get sick and face ten years of slowly dying, suffering every day, I'm taking the easy way out somehow, and it's up to the government if that's in a controlled environment or if they'll need to send out a cleanup crew when they find the suicide note.
However, I don't think you should be able to just buy suicide pills online. It's the only way to do it relatively safely and successfully for people in countries where assisted suicide isn't legal, but it's a workaround rather than a solution.