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Can the Visa-Mastercard duopoly be broken?

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Re: Can the Visa-Mastercard duopoly be broken?

#691

Post by marcus_holmes »

GekkePrutser wrote: post #486
cthalupa wrote: post #407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>They're hard to sign up for (banks don't like giving them) and you get registered for the loan which means you will have a harder time getting a mortgage or car loan. The more loans you already have the harder it gets. I heard in the US it works the opposite way. In the US, loans are distinct from lines of credit and credit cards. Just having a credit card won't make it easier for you to get a loan, but having a his…

> I've actually been quite successful in utilizing my Amex card across roughly two dozen countries in Europe and Asia, so this doesn't really match my experience. I haven't specifically tried to use it for a taxi in Paris, however. I do keep a Visa in my wallet in case I need it, but my bigger issue has been places that don't take cards at all, and having to carry cash. Cash only locations are basically nonexistent i…

Amex is a clear example of where the power and focus lies here.

Amex gives its customers great benefits. It charges merchants an arm and a leg to do that. Literally double the fees. Merchants then refuse to accept it a lot of the time, but every time a customer "only has an Amex card" they lose business, so a lot do accept it, grudgingly.

Of course customers prefer to use their Amex card whenever they can, because benefits. So they often pretend to "only have an Amex card" (much like "the machine is broken" in taxis, that then miraculously fixes itself when you pull out some loose change as "the only cash I have").

the customer is king, as always.

Re: Can the Visa-Mastercard duopoly be broken?

#692

Post by orbital-decay »

pumpkinprog wrote: post #680

No problem at all. See Russian example. 10 years ago it was 50/50% Visa/Mastercard on the Russian market. Today it is like 30/30/30 Mir/Visa/MC (Mir is the national payment system). And even those 60% are not "real" Visa/MC, since they are being processed through a centralized platform, owned by the Russian Central Bank. For example, it helped to save all the cards in working condition when Visa/MC exited Russia

Mir is a poor example. Government simply started to issue the paychecks through Mir, and this was a big deal in a country where government owns a huge share of the entire economy.

Re: Can the Visa-Mastercard duopoly be broken?

#694

Post by nradov »

rchaud wrote: post #689
nradov wrote: post #624

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who can't get a card? Anyone should be able to get a prepaid debit card, although it is a bit of extra hassle. Those work on the Visa / MasterCard networks, and are accepted by any business (except perhaps certain hotels and online services).

Cards require bank accounts, and bank accounts require home addresses. Not shelters, not PO boxes, not halfway houses. Home addresses. That takes out a large number of people who likely need banking services the most.

Wrong. Prepaid debit cards do not require bank accounts.

Re: Can the Visa-Mastercard duopoly be broken?

#695

Post by arcticbull »

hakfoo wrote: post #444
arcticbull wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Citi Double Cash is a 2% cash-back no annual fee card. Interchange benefits merchants too - there's real costs associated with holding cash, and average cart sizes are significantly bigger for credit cards. They also miss out on fewer sales. You may not value rewards programs but customers, card issuers and certainly those who operate those programs do. They're massive business. Frequently the only profitable part of…

I note recently they've recently changed it to present as "Thank You" points at a rate of 100-to-the-dollar. The cynic in me wonders how long before they devalue them. It's easier to start changing the rules for "points redemption" when they aren't saying outright "You have $112.75 in cashback value" on the statement. They recently had a promotion-- use the points directly to buy on Amazon, but if you paid that way,…

It could be a devaluation precursor, or it could just be psychological. Points-denominated rewards break the association with the actual dollar value. Folks feel better (irrationally so) about earning 100 points each worth $0.01 than they do about earning $1.00

Re: Can the Visa-Mastercard duopoly be broken?

#696

Post by mixmastamyk »

brewdad wrote: post #414
mixmastamyk wrote: post #379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They aren't a good solution to paying a friend $10 or your rent every month.

I can pay my child's college dorm fees with a credit card with no additional fee. At least I get a little cash back. But, yeah, that kind of arrangement is extremely rare.

It's a several-hundred-dollar a year fee to a middle-man. For a service that should be approaching free after a century of progress in telecommunications.

Re: Can the Visa-Mastercard duopoly be broken?

#697

Post by crossroadsguy »

cuteboy19 wrote: post #662
msravi wrote: post #660

In India, the duopoly is already broken by UPI (Universal Payments Interface). UPI provides zero-cost transfers and mobile payments between linked bank accounts and every little streetcorner store and sidewalk vendor accepts UPI payments. Also 2FA using SMS is required and enabled by default. You can pay by scanning a QR-code, or a mobile number, or a UPI ID. There's also an effort to allow "scanning" an audio-signal…

It's actually broken by RuPay cards (Rupee+Pay not Russia+Pay) which is a direct alternative to visa/MasterCard. It has like 30% market share already. Few years back the central bank realised that depending on a foreign company for such a basic thing might not be the best idea. And they were proven right with the Russia/SWIFT episode. Interestingly both Visa and MasterCard are currently lobbying (bribing) with the US…

True. RuPay is exploding in rural areas. I like the ideas. Competition is good.

However I wish Govt fixed UPI glitches like as of now UPI doesn’t fail/succeed decisively at the time of payment attempt (this often causes huge inconvenience and sometimes monetary losses) and they must bring chargeback option to UPI.

Re: Can the Visa-Mastercard duopoly be broken?

#698

Post by ciceryadam »

mcv wrote: post #495
martijnvds wrote: post #454

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most SEPA transfers (even between countries) are now instant, I've noticed.

Same here. I've got accounts at two different banks, and when I transfer money from one to the other, it's usually there literally the moment I approve the transaction. Within a second. I don't know if it's just as smooth across (internal EU) borders, but I don't see why it wouldn't be. It's possible that it does require both banks to have implemented these instant payments. Both side have the ability to delay the tr…

My experience of sending money from Czech republic (in EU, but not in Eurozone) to a bank in Netherlands via SEPA is ~4-6hours during banking hours, but I was surprised by immediate transfer from Slovakia (in EU and in Eurozone) to the same account.

Re: Can the Visa-Mastercard duopoly be broken?

#699

Post by ciceryadam »

AlexandrB wrote: post #235
lotsofpulp wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Instant, cost-free transfers between any two accounts, completed faster than you can lift your finger off your smartphone. This is available to most people in the US via Zelle. I have been using it for nearly 10 years I think. https://www.zellepay.com/get-started Ideally, the federal government would have already made it a utility available to all, but for now the functionality is there for those who can get a bank…

It's also available in Canada through Interac. I'm still shocked when I go to the US and have to sign for a credit card transaction. Last time I did that in Canada was when Bush was president.

Which Bush? :)

Re: Can the Visa-Mastercard duopoly be broken?

#700

Post by BrandoElFollito »

cycomanic wrote: post #103
philip1209 wrote: post #49

Fraud protection of credit cards is the root of modern e-commerce. In some ways, Visa and Mastercard are the privatized court systems of the internet. If I end up on a random, self-hosted ecommerce site and decide to make a purchase - what guarantee do I have that the item will show up or be as-described? If I bought something through a bank transfer, reversing that purchase would be incredibly difficult. And, suing…

As your post illustrates credit cards are really a solution developped for the deficiencies in the US banking system which have been exported to the rest of the world due to the dominance of the US market. 20 years when I was still living in Germany, hardly anyone had a credit card, while everyone was using automatic payments and electronic wiretransfers. I was very surprised when later (about 13 years ago) a US frie…

We still use cheques a lot in France. Even without that we are the Middle Ages of banking on Europe.

As for charge back, this is not something you can do yourself, you need to complain to the bank. By law they have to credit you back and investigate (and possibly charge back)

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