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Simple mix of soap and solvent could help destroy ‘forever chemicals’

science.org

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Re: Simple mix of soap and solvent could help destroy ‘forever chemicals’

#201

Post by overthemoon »

flobosg wrote: post #186
Supermancho wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I know about DMSO: DMSO is used in pain relief in other countries (eg Mexico). It's also excellent for burns as it allows the body to repair a tiny amount of nerve damage or prevents it. Hard to say. This is demonstrable by burning yourself, I guess. My family and I have used it for burns for over 20 years. Granted, we don't get burned/encounter people who have been burned at home that often. I had a close frien…

DMSO was purportedly involved in the case of the “Toxic Lady”[1], who apparently used it as a pain relief agent and ended up intoxicating the hospital workers assisting her. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Gloria_Ramirez

This is wild. Interesting that her family denied the claim she was self-administering DMSO.

Re: Simple mix of soap and solvent could help destroy ‘forever chemicals’

#202

Post by monkpit »

gtvwill wrote: post #36
pomian wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing beats cast iron. They aren't hard to take care of.(In spite of the rhetoric.) Actually easier, once you get a good surface on them. Pots, frying pans, woks, etc. They work very well. The most important thing is to give them time to heat up. Once they are, they hold the heat very well, so can cook at any temperature.

Geez https://www.solidteknics.com/ They make some nice stainless and iron gear :) no joints either so nothing to break over time.

https://www.dartointernational.com/

Darto makes decent carbon steel that won’t exactly break the bank :)

Re: Simple mix of soap and solvent could help destroy ‘forever chemicals’

#203

Post by rob_c »

ceejayoz wrote: post #101
rob_c wrote: post #87

Surely the label "forever chemicals" was a bit alarmist if household cleaning goods could break them down...

They're "forever" because they persist in the environment. You're not likely to find this specific combination of temperature and solvents in the wild. It's something you might be able to use in water treatment plants in areas where the supply has been contaminated. As the article notes, we already had ways of breaking them down, just with difficultly: "current PFAS-destruction techniques, such as incineration, can r…

So cleaning up after ourselves as a species requires effort...

Again, this...

Frankly doesn't surprise me, and I'm not blaming you for posting it but it just makes me want to crawl back into a cave and watch it all burn...

Re: Simple mix of soap and solvent could help destroy ‘forever chemicals’

#204

Post by rob_c »

freemint wrote: post #104
rob_c wrote: post #87

Surely the label "forever chemicals" was a bit alarmist if household cleaning goods could break them down...

The same household chemicals (especially at 120 degrees C) would kill all life. They are effectively forever in the environment.

Yes, extracting contaminated materials from an environment and decontaminating them would removing life because it's destructive. That's what cleaning this stuff up involves.

I'm all for "environmentally damaging" or someother name but "forever chemicals" is just a bad name for this that is going to get picked up on by people.

I'm not suggesting burn so much co2 that the planet gets to 120C, although it'd have less human problems at that point.

Re: Simple mix of soap and solvent could help destroy ‘forever chemicals’

#205

Post by smaddox »

armitron wrote: post #190
smaddox wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've found Green Pan's pans to be wonderful replacements for Teflon pans: https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B074CVZ7MM

Class action lawsuit: https://www.johnsonbecker.com/firm-news/greenpan-class-actio... It should be obvious to anyone at this point that anything that promises to be a "healthy" alternative to teflon and is not stainless steel / cast-iron / carbon steel is most probably a scam.

Have they won the lawsuit? Perhaps consider witholding judgement?

Re: Simple mix of soap and solvent could help destroy ‘forever chemicals’

#206

Post by LinuxBender »

doodlebugging wrote: post #160
sbierwagen wrote: post #4

The paper: https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abm8868 The "soap and solvent" is sodium hydroxide (lye) and DMSO at 120 degC. Those are... fairly... well behaved chemicals, but lye is stout stuff and DMSO attacks nitrile gloves. You could imagine a remediation process that uses this process but the combo ain't exactly Dawn dish soap. I'd almost prefer pyroprocessing over it.

About 40 years ago I boarded my horse with an old cowboy who used DMSO as a horse liniment. He had been using it for years any time one of his mounts was worked pretty hard or when someone brought a lame horse to him. He would rub the joints, calves, and thighs of the horse down good with DMSO for a few days and then they were good to go again. He also used it on his wife. He told me that she had type I diabetes and…

Are you certain it was DMSO and not DMSO2? I ask because quite a few ointments for horses have DMSO2/MSM. I use it on horses with horse specific formulas and on myself in a cream designed for humans called Penetrex.

Re: Simple mix of soap and solvent could help destroy ‘forever chemicals’

#207

Post by sitkack »

quickthrower2 wrote: post #156
selcuka wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or just wait and do nothing...

Sun is gonna die eventually

Earth will vanish long before the Sun does.

C3 photosynthetic plant life will end in about 600My.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formation_and_evolution_of_the...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Future_of_Earth

Re: Simple mix of soap and solvent could help destroy ‘forever chemicals’

#208

Post by paulmd »

rob_c wrote: post #204
freemint wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The same household chemicals (especially at 120 degrees C) would kill all life. They are effectively forever in the environment.

Yes, extracting contaminated materials from an environment and decontaminating them would removing life because it's destructive. That's what cleaning this stuff up involves. I'm all for "environmentally damaging" or someother name but "forever chemicals" is just a bad name for this that is going to get picked up on by people. I'm not suggesting burn so much co2 that the planet gets to 120C, although it'd have less h…

Pumping high-strength lye heated to 40-120C into the environment (soil and water supply) in large enough quantities to neutralize PFOA over large areas is right up there with alt.pave.the.earth in terms of practicality and environmentalism.

some serious HackerNews brain right there, just needs an app and I can get my bingo.

There aren't many chemicals that won't be destroyed in those conditions, the lye will just rip hydrogen off most molecules, but, it'll also do it to, you know, pretty much everything else too. You ever see a chemical burn before? Literally this, but imagine a solution of the lye that's hot to make it even more reactive...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvtUrjfnSnA

Re: Simple mix of soap and solvent could help destroy ‘forever chemicals’

#209

Post by mbushey »

ars wrote: post #97
autoexec wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even negligible amounts of something that never goes away and builds up in your blood is a problem.

It does not build up in your body, it builds up in the environment. The amount in your body is basically exactly the same as whatever environment you are in. On top of that, how much PFOA would you imagine is even in a frying pan? It's already so little it's considered negligible, so unless you are buying new ones every day, even the negligible amount is not "building up".

Yet that negligible amount is enough to kill birds. What was that about miners and canaries?

Re: Simple mix of soap and solvent could help destroy ‘forever chemicals’

#210

Post by mbushey »

ricardobeat wrote: post #176
jerry1979 wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I scrape the heck out of my cast iron pan using a bit of chain mail I keep by the sink in order to clean it. I do reapply oil and heat as you suggest. Do you reckon I'm missing out on some benefits of cast iron because I scrape it so relentlessly?

You’re probably stopping the seasoning from building up, and making it more sticky. Hot water and a soft nylon brush should be enough for 90% of your cooking, the occasional sticky burger just needs a 5m hot water bath to let go.

Yum, everyone needs to consume more nylon. I use a small cheese knife that looks like a mini meat cleaver as a scraper. The pans have enough seasoning that they're similar to Teflon as far as stickiness goes.
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