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Simple mix of soap and solvent could help destroy ‘forever chemicals’

science.org

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Re: Simple mix of soap and solvent could help destroy ‘forever chemicals’

#181

Post by asielen »

ars wrote: post #127
selcuka wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You probably know what you are talking about but the lack of research doesn't fill me with confidence [1]: > However, at temperatures above 500°F (260°C), Teflon coatings on nonstick cookware start to break down, releasing toxic chemicals into the air. [...] Polymer fume fever consists of temporary, flu-like symptoms such as chills, fever, headache, and body aches. The onset occurs after 4–10 hours of exposure, and t…

Maybe you don't realize how hot 500F is - your oven maxes out at 450. At 500 everything in the plan is black charcoal. Any oil in the pan caught fire.

Turning my burner up to max my carbon steel wok has gotten up to 700. Before I knew better, I had an old non-stick wok and on the first use the coating came off at high temperatures. Never actually cooked in it, threw it out and went for the carbon steel instead.

Many ovens have their top temp at 550F. And when the broiler is on, it can go well above that (although in a smaller more focused area).

Re: Simple mix of soap and solvent could help destroy ‘forever chemicals’

#182

Post by mellavora »

ngold wrote: post #38
sbierwagen wrote: post #4

The paper: https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abm8868 The "soap and solvent" is sodium hydroxide (lye) and DMSO at 120 degC. Those are... fairly... well behaved chemicals, but lye is stout stuff and DMSO attacks nitrile gloves. You could imagine a remediation process that uses this process but the combo ain't exactly Dawn dish soap. I'd almost prefer pyroprocessing over it.

We just need to boil the world's oceans now

There was a concern that the hydrogen bomb would do that. Probably just a scare story.

Re: Simple mix of soap and solvent could help destroy ‘forever chemicals’

#183

Post by simonebrunozzi »

culi wrote: post #3

Now that Teflon got sued and switched to a different, probably more harmful, chemical I wonder if we'll want to go back to the OG "forever chemicals"

> probably more harmful

Is this based on insight or knowledge? Or simply wanting to bash Teflon (probably rightfully so)?

Re: Simple mix of soap and solvent could help destroy ‘forever chemicals’

#184

Post by hedora »

kragen wrote: post #161
fy20 wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I tried many different methods and nothing really worked, then I finally came across this: - heat it up so it's warm in the oven - coat it generously with vegetable oil (it's what I had, but basically any oil will do) - wipe the excess with a paper towel so it's still shiny but not runny - put it in the oven for an hour just above the smoke point of the oil (I'm not really a fan of cast iron, as they are too heavy fo…

How do you get it to be just above the smoke point of the oil without a thermostat or a suitable thermometer? The knob on my oven just varies the amount of gas going to the burner.

Oven thermometers are cheap, but barring that, use inexpensive canola or vegetable oil sparingly; just enough to make it shiny, and turn the knob to 350F (or whatever setting you use by default when baking or cooking).

If the coating turns white, recoat with oil and try a lower temperature or less time. Cast iron is an extremely old technology, and was common back in the days of wood stoves. It doesn’t require precision instruments to maintain it.

If you somehow ruin the seasoning, you can always scrape it with steel wool and try again. I once forgot a mini skillet in a frequentLy used propane grill for ~ 3 years, then left it outdoors with a burnt off coating for winter or two. I spent 5 minutes scrubbing rust off it in the sink, then oiled and seasoned it. We use it for sunny side up eggs these days.

Re: Simple mix of soap and solvent could help destroy ‘forever chemicals’

#186

Post by flobosg »

Supermancho wrote: post #31
sbierwagen wrote: post #4

The paper: https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abm8868 The "soap and solvent" is sodium hydroxide (lye) and DMSO at 120 degC. Those are... fairly... well behaved chemicals, but lye is stout stuff and DMSO attacks nitrile gloves. You could imagine a remediation process that uses this process but the combo ain't exactly Dawn dish soap. I'd almost prefer pyroprocessing over it.

What I know about DMSO: DMSO is used in pain relief in other countries (eg Mexico). It's also excellent for burns as it allows the body to repair a tiny amount of nerve damage or prevents it. Hard to say. This is demonstrable by burning yourself, I guess. My family and I have used it for burns for over 20 years. Granted, we don't get burned/encounter people who have been burned at home that often. I had a close frien…

DMSO was purportedly involved in the case of the “Toxic Lady”[1], who apparently used it as a pain relief agent and ended up intoxicating the hospital workers assisting her.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Gloria_Ramirez

Re: Simple mix of soap and solvent could help destroy ‘forever chemicals’

#187

Post by armitron »

pueblito wrote: post #120

On the topic of PFAS, I’ve used a https://www.berkeyfilters.com/ for 10+ years and they filter out PFOS PFAS etc

Berkey filters look like a scam to me: https://archive.ph/ixmXD

The fact that they refuse to get certified / conduct any independent rigorous testing (like in NSF/ANSI certification) should have clued you in.

"We also cut open a pair of Black Berkey filters to see how they are constructed and to look for evidence that, as Berkey marketing claims, they contain “at least” six different filtering elements. We found that though the Berkey filters are larger and denser than filters from Brita and 3M Filtrete, they appear to share their filtration mechanisms: activated charcoal impregnated with an ion-exchange resin. "

I wouldn't count on any of this to filter chemicals, much less PFAS.

Re: Simple mix of soap and solvent could help destroy ‘forever chemicals’

#188

Post by bruce343434 »

samwillis wrote: post #6

Slightly off topic, I’m keen to dispose of our Teflon frying pan. Does anyone have a good recommendation for an alternative, ideally one that doesn’t take too much “maintenance”? We also have a Teflon milk pan but that is never used at a high tempriture so I’m less concerned about that.

Ceramic enamel coated pans are non stick and non maintenance.

Re: Simple mix of soap and solvent could help destroy ‘forever chemicals’

#189

Post by mtlmtlmtlmtl »

ars wrote: post #14
Teknoman117 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's honestly one of the things I wish we could get a handle on. Company gets sued for using and hiding the danger of a compound they learned fairly quickly was toxic. Goes and invents another compound and switches to it without having to prove its safety. After it becoming public that they were intentionally hiding dangers for a half century, I feel we should take away their ability to be given the benefit of the…

> but it's not like the final product (Teflon) is safe to ingest either Sure it is. I don't think a less toxic material than Teflon even exists. It's toxicity is comparable to water. The LD50 of Teflon is > 11,280 mg/kg. Water by comparison is 90,000 mg/kg. They were not able to measure the exact toxicity because it's impossible to eat so much.

LD50 only tells you acute lethal toxicity. LD50 can be astronomically high and a compound might still have long term, non-lethal toxic effects like injuring specific tissues.

No one is even suggesting lethal toxicity is the issue here, so how is it relevant?

Re: Simple mix of soap and solvent could help destroy ‘forever chemicals’

#190

Post by armitron »

smaddox wrote: post #151
samwillis wrote: post #6

Slightly off topic, I’m keen to dispose of our Teflon frying pan. Does anyone have a good recommendation for an alternative, ideally one that doesn’t take too much “maintenance”? We also have a Teflon milk pan but that is never used at a high tempriture so I’m less concerned about that.

I've found Green Pan's pans to be wonderful replacements for Teflon pans: https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B074CVZ7MM

Class action lawsuit: https://www.johnsonbecker.com/firm-news/greenpan-class-actio...

It should be obvious to anyone at this point that anything that promises to be a "healthy" alternative to teflon and is not stainless steel / cast-iron / carbon steel is most probably a scam.

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