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What Beirut was like before the war (2019)

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Re: What Beirut was like before the war (2019)

#221

Post by skippyboxedhero »

nsajko wrote: post #152
skippyboxedhero wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

100 years? It was basically a first-world country 50 years ago. The decline in living standards in Lebanon is one of the largest ever (Argentina probably the biggest, Venezuela is the other big one, Lebanon is somewhere around Venezuela). Countries can come back (the country that was Austro-Hungary, Slovakia has a city with one of the highest GDP per capita in Europe after massive repeated collapses), but there is (a…

Vague insinuations such as this one always harm the discussion. Why not just communicate clearly? > the country that was Austro-Hungary, Slovakia No, Slovakia wasn't Austria-Hungary, rather it was just a small part of Austria-Hungary (of Hungary, to be more precise). Wasn't even a successor de jure of Austria-Hungary.

I was referring to Bratislava...I said Slovakia. Pressburg was in Austro-Hungary I believe. Either way, it is irrelevant because that whole area did collapse economically multiple times, Austro-Hungary is one of the only stock markets that went literally to zero. The same story to the Middle East in many ways (war, repeatedly).

Re: What Beirut was like before the war (2019)

#222

Post by justinzollars »

dvirsky wrote: post #127
justinzollars wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What a limited view. Consider Tyre, very close to Beirut. Before Muslim it was Phoenician, Hittite, Egyptian, Babylonian, Assyrian, Canaanite, Persian, Macedonian, Israeli, English, Ottoman, Roman, and now Lebanon. Its had both Eastern and Western Influence (since Alexander). Remember Alexander predates the existence of Islam and Christianity - certainly colonialism. At the time of Beirut's founding its religion was…

> Israeli Huh? You mean in biblical times?

Probably difficult to distinguish the groups. Phoenician is a Canaanite language closely related to Hebrew. But the point is the area traded hands with almost every major civilization through many epochs.

Re: What Beirut was like before the war (2019)

#223

Post by loonster »

guelo wrote: post #164
loonster wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was obvious voter fraud in the 2020 election. The only question that should be disputed is if it was enough to sway the election.

It's mind blowing to me that generally intelligent people believe the biggest sore loser in American history. It's a huge danger to the future of our democracy and you all don't care. It seriously makes me want to cry in despair for the future.

I feel your despair, but from the other side. I don't know how anyone could watch the surveillance videos of Fulton county and not conclude their was voter fraud. It's absolutely mind boggling.

Re: What Beirut was like before the war (2019)

#224

Post by selimthegrim »

loonster wrote: post #223
guelo wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's mind blowing to me that generally intelligent people believe the biggest sore loser in American history. It's a huge danger to the future of our democracy and you all don't care. It seriously makes me want to cry in despair for the future.

I feel your despair, but from the other side. I don't know how anyone could watch the surveillance videos of Fulton county and not conclude their was voter fraud. It's absolutely mind boggling.

Those poll workers have had their lives ruined over allegations that didn’t stand up in court.

Re: What Beirut was like before the war (2019)

#225

Post by selimthegrim »

munificent wrote: post #134
martincmartin wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The country is in complete deadlock politically - all of the warlords from the civil war just became politicians and then systematically looted the country. I always wonder why many democracies devolve into politicians just looting the government, whereas others become successful and relatively less corrupt.

I think about this all the time. I believe it arises from an interaction between individuals and the surrounding culture and institutions. Let's assume, a priori, that everyone is trying to maximize their "success". This doesn't necessarily mean purely selfish greed , but more an observation that there's a natural incentive to take care of ourselves and our own and that we will naturally try to figure out how to get…

I believe you have rediscovered ‘asabiyya. Ibn Khaldun must be smiling down at you.

Re: What Beirut was like before the war (2019)

#226

Post by dang »

pid_0 wrote: post #17

Quoted post unavailable.

We've banned this account for posting unsubstantive comments and flamebait.

If you don't want to be banned, you're welcome to email hn@ycombinator.com and give us reason to believe that you'll follow the rules in the future. They're here: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.

Re: What Beirut was like before the war (2019)

#227

Post by selimthegrim »

rayiner wrote: post #168
xyzzyz wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Human history is a story of repeated conquest, population admixture and/or replacement. Almost all “indigenous people” in present or past are just descendants of the most recent conquerors. Hardly any peoples have legitimate claim to land on the virtue of being there first, it’s almost universally on the basis of conquest instead. It always has been thus.

But there is a difference between conquerors that intermarried (European colonists to Latin america) and ones that didn’t (Mughals and British). Modern Indians have very little Mughal ancestry.

It’s the other way around - Mughals gained Indian ancestry. Canonical example is Babur to Akbar losing epicanthic folds. I guess “Ganga-jamni tahzeeb” and culture of Awadh don’t count here according to you.

- Signed, one of your mythical people with “very little Mughal ancestry” whose family founded Shahjahanpur.

Re: What Beirut was like before the war (2019)

#228

Post by selimthegrim »

bnralt wrote: post #55
finnh wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Iran's decline began when the US overthrew Mossadegh's democratically elected government and installed the Shah, which led to the Ayatollah.

The U.S. didn't install the Shah. He'd been in power since 1941, when the Anglo-Soviet invasion of Iran forced the abdication of his father. He didn't have as much power as his father, so there was a power struggle between him and members of parliament, but he still wielded a great deal of political power in the country pre-1953. One only need look at the 1949 constitutional assembly, where the Shah sought and succee…

He was also buying votes in the parliament before he dissolved it

Re: What Beirut was like before the war (2019)

#229

Post by cocoland2 »

bragr wrote: post #66
eldaisfish wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One could make the same argument for a country like India. There is no "India" in the sense of an ethno-linguisic grouping. India is more akin to the European Union but even more diverse. The Indian state has survived for seventy five years now. Just as the French and British dismembered the Ottoman empire to create modern Lebanon, so too did the British dismember the Indian empire to create India and Pakistan.

I'm not sure India is the best example right now as it is being consumed by Hindu nationalism to the detriment of minorities.

Sadly it is pretty much the story of the world with a few rare exceptions. Far right movements ethnic/religion/political have engulfed almost every place , amplified by social media and re-amplified by media. Note that Hindus get shot in their homes in Indian state of Kashmir too , the latest being 1 day ago.This eye for an eye will take anyone anywhere.

Re: What Beirut was like before the war (2019)

#230

Post by VictorPath »

kamaal wrote: post #24
rayiner wrote: post #3

Lots of places in the Middle East were more European like this before the colonial influences weakened and the Muslim majority populations got back more power over their own countries. Egypt and Iran are similar. The nostalgia is somewhat uncomfortable because in some respects things were better because they were better, but in others it’s the perception of things being better because they’re more relatable to Europe…

'Colonial Influences' were exactly what they were - 'Colonial Influences', Here in India, British barely spent money on education, or industrialising the country. Whatever little infrastructure got built, was done to ensure British could efficiently siphon off whatever they were trying to take from here. To that effect, the pictures of modernism you see from the colonies are restricted to a few cities, and a few mino…

> Here in India, British barely spent money on education, or industrialising the country.

It's beyond even that. The English spent the nineteenth century deindustrializing India - textiles, steel etc.

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