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Simple mix of soap and solvent could help destroy ‘forever chemicals’

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Re: Simple mix of soap and solvent could help destroy ‘forever chemicals’

#121

Post by rayiner »

kragen wrote: post #91
pomian wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing beats cast iron. They aren't hard to take care of.(In spite of the rhetoric.) Actually easier, once you get a good surface on them. Pots, frying pans, woks, etc. They work very well. The most important thing is to give them time to heat up. Once they are, they hold the heat very well, so can cook at any temperature.

Do you have recommendations for seasoning them without a thermostat or a suitable thermometer? I successfully burned my new cast-iron skillet clean, but even after four thin coats of poppyseed and flaxseed oil, each heated up for an hour or so to a temperature that chars garlic skin after a few minutes, eggs still stick if I try to cook them on it without oil. (I'm a fan of teflon but I like cast iron even more.)

Do people cook eggs without oil? Do you use butter or something?

Re: Simple mix of soap and solvent could help destroy ‘forever chemicals’

#122

Post by PaulHoule »

Supermancho wrote: post #31
sbierwagen wrote: post #4

The paper: https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abm8868 The "soap and solvent" is sodium hydroxide (lye) and DMSO at 120 degC. Those are... fairly... well behaved chemicals, but lye is stout stuff and DMSO attacks nitrile gloves. You could imagine a remediation process that uses this process but the combo ain't exactly Dawn dish soap. I'd almost prefer pyroprocessing over it.

What I know about DMSO: DMSO is used in pain relief in other countries (eg Mexico). It's also excellent for burns as it allows the body to repair a tiny amount of nerve damage or prevents it. Hard to say. This is demonstrable by burning yourself, I guess. My family and I have used it for burns for over 20 years. Granted, we don't get burned/encounter people who have been burned at home that often. I had a close frien…

A mixture of diclofenac and DMSO to treat pain can be bought OTC

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19380203/

it was an expensive prescription med a few years back. I get dyspepsia from NSAIDs so I thought, "Could I make an ointment like that with ibuprofen?" and looked in the literature and found that ibuprofen is absorbed quickly with DMSO even more so than diclofenac. So I made a batch, but when I tried it I found I'd get dyspepsia very quickly after applying it to my skin so I guess the ibuprofen was being absorbed efficiently.

Re: Simple mix of soap and solvent could help destroy ‘forever chemicals’

#123

Post by autoexec »

ars wrote: post #92
autoexec wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please cite the long term studies on ingested PTFE coatings that assert they are safe. I'll wait...

Here you go: https://goaskalice.columbia.edu/answered-questions/fear-tefl... PTFE goes out unchanged from how it was when it went in. It's completely inert. It's even used in implants, so has plenty of long term studies: https://dermnetnz.org/topics/polytetrafluoroethylene-implant https://www.facialplasticsurgerycharlotte.com/content/upload... https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26110468/ How many studies are you looking…

Just one. Not one of those links is a long term study on ingested PTFE coatings.

Re: Simple mix of soap and solvent could help destroy ‘forever chemicals’

#124

Post by heavyset_go »

itsangaris wrote: post #17
ok_dad wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's just like teflon in basically every way. Hopefully not in the bad ways? Is the "ceramic coating" proven to not be harmful?

Ceramic itself is safe. Ultimately for a coating, the safety depends on what's underneath if/when it wears through.

Ceramics can be glazed with lead. It can also end up in ceramics that are used in cookware[1].

[1] https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2017/12/08/563808879/ca...

Re: Simple mix of soap and solvent could help destroy ‘forever chemicals’

#126

Post by bfrog »

samwillis wrote: post #6

Slightly off topic, I’m keen to dispose of our Teflon frying pan. Does anyone have a good recommendation for an alternative, ideally one that doesn’t take too much “maintenance”? We also have a Teflon milk pan but that is never used at a high tempriture so I’m less concerned about that.

Cast iron is low maintenance, just don't over think the seasoning thing and don't cook overly acidic things. Cook with oil, clean with soap and hot water (use a plastic scraper if you need to...), dry on the stove and once dry wipe with a paper towel you put a little drop of oil on. Wait until the oil just smokes and turn it off. Done. Takes 1min tops. You can use steel utensils, just don't go scratching at it when cleaning with a wire brush.

Just get used to the imperfect surface, its not going to be perfect, it may get to be smooth and black one day, but even my nearly hundred year old skillet I've gotten through my family sometimes gets a scratch or a flake off. Its self correcting the more you use it.

If that's still too much "maintenance" try a nice enameled cast iron skillet or pot from le creuset. Don't cheap out. These are fantastic, aren't bothered by acidic foods, and still have the same nice heat holding properties of seasoned iron. Really love these. Don't use steel utensils or bang them around the edges with sticks and they last forever, or at least long enough you feel the cost was well worth it. My mother in law had hers, used, for nearly 25 years before the enamel flaked, and she didn't bother treating it nice (scrubbed, used metal utensils, etc).

Re: Simple mix of soap and solvent could help destroy ‘forever chemicals’

#127

Post by ars »

selcuka wrote: post #106
ars wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What bad ways? Teflon is not harmful. Teflon is not the same as PFAS, and Teflon cookware does not leech any PFAS into food. See my other reply: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32515717 And to answer your question, ceramics sometimes have heavy metals to get bright colors (cadmium mostly). Make sure to buy from a reputable manufacturer.

You probably know what you are talking about but the lack of research doesn't fill me with confidence [1]: > However, at temperatures above 500°F (260°C), Teflon coatings on nonstick cookware start to break down, releasing toxic chemicals into the air. [...] Polymer fume fever consists of temporary, flu-like symptoms such as chills, fever, headache, and body aches. The onset occurs after 4–10 hours of exposure, and t…

Maybe you don't realize how hot 500F is - your oven maxes out at 450. At 500 everything in the plan is black charcoal. Any oil in the pan caught fire.

Re: Simple mix of soap and solvent could help destroy ‘forever chemicals’

#128

Post by ars »

klabb3 wrote: post #56
ars wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but it's not like the final product (Teflon) is safe to ingest either Sure it is. I don't think a less toxic material than Teflon even exists. It's toxicity is comparable to water. The LD50 of Teflon is > 11,280 mg/kg. Water by comparison is 90,000 mg/kg. They were not able to measure the exact toxicity because it's impossible to eat so much.

Is LD50 a meaningful measurement for biopersistent and accumulated compounds? It seems like it would be quite useless, or worse, misleading. I recall that large blobs of mercury was used as a homemade remedy for stomach issues which turned out to not be a great idea for obvious reasons, although it's LD50 would probably have been similarly high.

Teflon is not a biopersistent or accumulated compounds. Teflon goes out exactly as it went in, undigested, unabsorbed, utterly ignored by the body.

Re: Simple mix of soap and solvent could help destroy ‘forever chemicals’

#130

Post by ars »

autoexec wrote: post #123
ars wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here you go: https://goaskalice.columbia.edu/answered-questions/fear-tefl... PTFE goes out unchanged from how it was when it went in. It's completely inert. It's even used in implants, so has plenty of long term studies: https://dermnetnz.org/topics/polytetrafluoroethylene-implant https://www.facialplasticsurgerycharlotte.com/content/upload... https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26110468/ How many studies are you looking…

Just one. Not one of those links is a long term study on ingested PTFE coatings.

And you think that ingesting PTFE is somehow worse than an actual PTFE implant? Why you insisting it must be a digestion study? Do you make such requirements for everything you interact with? Has someone done a study on using paper straws? Or plastic plates? Or metal spoons?

Do you understand that when you eat PTFE it comes out exactly the same way it went in?

Even powerful acids can't do anything to PTFE, what makes you think the body can do anything to it?

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