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Simple mix of soap and solvent could help destroy ‘forever chemicals’

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Re: Simple mix of soap and solvent could help destroy ‘forever chemicals’

#101

Post by ceejayoz »

rob_c wrote: post #87

Surely the label "forever chemicals" was a bit alarmist if household cleaning goods could break them down...

They're "forever" because they persist in the environment. You're not likely to find this specific combination of temperature and solvents in the wild. It's something you might be able to use in water treatment plants in areas where the supply has been contaminated.

As the article notes, we already had ways of breaking them down, just with difficultly: "current PFAS-destruction techniques, such as incineration, can require vast amounts of energy, superhigh temperatures, and millions of dollars".

Re: Simple mix of soap and solvent could help destroy ‘forever chemicals’

#102

Post by kragen »

ars wrote: post #16
ok_dad wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's just like teflon in basically every way. Hopefully not in the bad ways? Is the "ceramic coating" proven to not be harmful?

What bad ways? Teflon is not harmful. Teflon is not the same as PFAS, and Teflon cookware does not leech any PFAS into food. See my other reply: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32515717 And to answer your question, ceramics sometimes have heavy metals to get bright colors (cadmium mostly). Make sure to buy from a reputable manufacturer.

Teflon is certainly a perfluoroalkyl substance but it is perfectly safe as long as you aren't thermally decomposing it at temperatures that are too hot to cook at.

Re: Simple mix of soap and solvent could help destroy ‘forever chemicals’

#103

Post by asdff »

kragen wrote: post #91
pomian wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing beats cast iron. They aren't hard to take care of.(In spite of the rhetoric.) Actually easier, once you get a good surface on them. Pots, frying pans, woks, etc. They work very well. The most important thing is to give them time to heat up. Once they are, they hold the heat very well, so can cook at any temperature.

Do you have recommendations for seasoning them without a thermostat or a suitable thermometer? I successfully burned my new cast-iron skillet clean, but even after four thin coats of poppyseed and flaxseed oil, each heated up for an hour or so to a temperature that chars garlic skin after a few minutes, eggs still stick if I try to cook them on it without oil. (I'm a fan of teflon but I like cast iron even more.)

Just use a little butter, olive oil, or lard (bacon is good) whenever you cook with them.

Re: Simple mix of soap and solvent could help destroy ‘forever chemicals’

#104

Post by freemint »

rob_c wrote: post #87

Surely the label "forever chemicals" was a bit alarmist if household cleaning goods could break them down...

The same household chemicals (especially at 120 degrees C) would kill all life. They are effectively forever in the environment.

Re: Simple mix of soap and solvent could help destroy ‘forever chemicals’

#105

Post by kragen »

pessimizer wrote: post #35
ars wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

High temperatures do not bother Teflon, there's no reason to dispose of it because of that. According to the EPA Teflon frying pans do not leech any PFOA into food, that's not where people are exposed. I've noticed that for some reason a ton of people think they get exposure to PFOA from cookware, and that's simply not true. PFOA exposure mainly comes from waterproofing coatings, slippery coatings (like the bottom of…

I don't know what's released from Teflon pans at high heat, but Teflon kills birds. I know this because I killed two birds by forgetting about a pan I was warming up. Wasn't enough to make the pan look any different; was enough to instantly kill the birds. https://www.teflon.com/en/consumers/teflon-coatings-cookware...

Condolences. Had you had them long?

Re: Simple mix of soap and solvent could help destroy ‘forever chemicals’

#106

Post by selcuka »

ars wrote: post #16
ok_dad wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's just like teflon in basically every way. Hopefully not in the bad ways? Is the "ceramic coating" proven to not be harmful?

What bad ways? Teflon is not harmful. Teflon is not the same as PFAS, and Teflon cookware does not leech any PFAS into food. See my other reply: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32515717 And to answer your question, ceramics sometimes have heavy metals to get bright colors (cadmium mostly). Make sure to buy from a reputable manufacturer.

You probably know what you are talking about but the lack of research doesn't fill me with confidence [1]:

> However, at temperatures above 500°F (260°C), Teflon coatings on nonstick cookware start to break down, releasing toxic chemicals into the air. [...] Polymer fume fever consists of temporary, flu-like symptoms such as chills, fever, headache, and body aches. The onset occurs after 4–10 hours of exposure, and the condition usually resolves within 12–48 hours.

[1] https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/nonstick-cookware-safet...

Re: Simple mix of soap and solvent could help destroy ‘forever chemicals’

#107

Post by asdff »

baby wrote: post #61
tetetetetete wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I bought a cast iron thinking it would be a pain. its really not. they have came a long way. you can treat it like any other pan (besides being heavy) - you can use soap to clean it. - Dont get me wrong. treating it correctly will make it last a life time. i just store mine in the oven when ive finished washing it.

I’m not sure about general treatment, but one thing that you can’t do is let water sit in there, as it’ll rust.

If its super well seasoned it won't rust even with soaking for two days in dish soap.

Re: Simple mix of soap and solvent could help destroy ‘forever chemicals’

#108

Post by kragen »

ars wrote: post #68
arcticbull wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While that's fair your link suggests it's found its way into schedule 2 of the chemical weapons convention. > Perfluoroisobutene is quite toxic with an LCt = 880 mg⋅min⋅m−3 (mice).[1] It is a Schedule 2 substance of the Chemical Weapons Convention. I don't know about you but I try and keep my ricin away from my breakfast foods. It is however reassuring that it'll be degraded in the environment.

> I don't know about you but I try and keep my ricin away from my breakfast foods. To cause Teflon to degrade you have to heat the pan to over 500F / 260C. No one cooks at those temperatures, even ovens don't go so high. You basically have to forget the pan on a high flame for a long time. And the toxic chemicals you get from overheating oil are far worse, somehow everyone forgets about those.

It's true that those temperatures are too hot to cook at, but overheated oil at 260 or 270 degrees is a great deal more conspicuous than teflon pyrolysis at those temperatures. This makes the overheated oil safer, in the same way that silane is safer than hydrogen sulfide even though its lethal dose is lower.

Still, I like cooking on teflon.

Re: Simple mix of soap and solvent could help destroy ‘forever chemicals’

#109

Post by kragen »

ars wrote: post #92
autoexec wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please cite the long term studies on ingested PTFE coatings that assert they are safe. I'll wait...

Here you go: https://goaskalice.columbia.edu/answered-questions/fear-tefl... PTFE goes out unchanged from how it was when it went in. It's completely inert. It's even used in implants, so has plenty of long term studies: https://dermnetnz.org/topics/polytetrafluoroethylene-implant https://www.facialplasticsurgerycharlotte.com/content/upload... https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26110468/ How many studies are you looking…

I really appreciate you making the effort to debunk the witch-burners; have you thought about doing it in a less ephemeral medium? Your comment will probably be here for a decade or more but nobody will read it after this month.

Re: Simple mix of soap and solvent could help destroy ‘forever chemicals’

#110

Post by pessimizer »

kragen wrote: post #105
pessimizer wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know what's released from Teflon pans at high heat, but Teflon kills birds. I know this because I killed two birds by forgetting about a pan I was warming up. Wasn't enough to make the pan look any different; was enough to instantly kill the birds. https://www.teflon.com/en/consumers/teflon-coatings-cookware...

Condolences. Had you had them long?

No, it's even more awful. I was visiting my mother and little sister (tween at the time) on vacation from work (we lived in different states), and I was going to make them breakfast. Spaced out on the pan while trying to sort out the ingredients. Everybody tried to make me feel better (because no one else had ever heard that Teflon kills birds either), but little sister was distraught.
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