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What Beirut was like before the war (2019)

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Re: What Beirut was like before the war (2019)

#181

Post by ben0x539 »

ballenf wrote: post #174
teh_klev wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's quite the re-writing of history there. The Shah removed Mosaddegh from power in 1952 but re-instated him almost immediately due to pressure from pro-democracy supporters. The Shah was then exiled after a failed coup attempt by one of his Imperial Guard colonels effectively leaving him powerless. The rest is history and we've gotten to where we're at today because the UK and the US interfered with a nascent dem…

> I should reveal that I'm an anti-monarchist and a believe that states should strip any and all powers from from their monarchies, even if they are quaint and historical anachronisms. Curious why? Would you hold that position even if the monarch has present widespread support from the population? Do you think something has changed to make that form of rule more objectionable than it was in the past? I.e., do you hav…

I wouldn't go around and label myself an anti-monarchist but I'm surprised that that's a contentious position? Yes, of course the people should strip all power from their monarchies/monarchs/aristocrats in a democracy, because democracy is about sovereign power originating from the people or whatever, not from divine right or right of conquest or tradition or something. And yes, of course historic monarchies are at least equally objectionable! As a rule I'm pretty sure they exploited people a lot worse than at least the present-day monarchies we tolerate for whatever reason!

If the monarch as a person has present widespread support from the population they can probably do the aristocratic equivalent of a gofundme to keep living in their pretty palace if that's what the population wants, and then get elected to normal political offices like a normal person. If the monarch as an office has present widespread support I'm going to quietly disagree with the population and in the case of the UK at least roll my eyes a little.

Re: What Beirut was like before the war (2019)

#182

Post by Theodores »

nine_k wrote: post #83
Theodores wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that there are many national identities that are similar. Poland is an example. Regarding the article, before and after pictures of Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya and Syria to name a few places are the same. Prosperous sovereign nations outside Western Europe and North America are bad for business.

I wonder why prosperous sovereign nations in South Asia are not bad for business. Maybe because they don't have the oil.

Sovereignty is different if you have U.S. bases on your soil. Any country with a U.S. base is a vassal state, independent and therefore sovereign in name only.

Those prosperous states in South Asia, outside mainland China, do seem to have lots of American troops stationed in them.

Re: What Beirut was like before the war (2019)

#183

Post by suzzer99 »

mikem170 wrote: post #121
egberts1 wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You were saying? https://www.reddit.com/r/electionfraud/comments/v85iy4/mind_...

I see your graphic posted by someone named jgreene777 on reddit and raise you a 72 page report prepared under the direction of eight prominent conservatives - people like retired federal judges, former senators, a solicitor general, an election lawyer, etc. [0] This report looked at the 64 court cases and 187 allegations of election fraud in all 6 battleground states and documented the evidence showing that each and…

Thank you. This is a perfect example of the maxim that it is at least an order of magnitude harder to refute propaganda than it is to create it. Imagine how much time went into the reddit graphic, vs. this report. And on top of that it will hardly change any minds.

Re: What Beirut was like before the war (2019)

#184

Post by suzzer99 »

nonrandomstring wrote: post #137
suzzer99 wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plenty of places with high ethnic/religious diversity have thrived: Singapore, Istanbul, New York City, (increasingly) the capitals of Western Europe. Teotihuacan, the largest pyramid complex outside of Egypt, was a multi-cultural city where different religions, languages and ethnicities lived side by side for 1000 years. It can be done.

> Plenty of places with high ethnic/religious diversity have thrived: What you say is true but besides the point. There's no argument to be made against ethnic/religious diversity. But there is a problem with foreign interference that stokes ethnic tension. My own London is perhaps the most successful multi-cultural population in the world. We don't have RPG attacks on schools because we don't have superpowers spendi…

Yeah that is true.

Re: What Beirut was like before the war (2019)

#185

Post by [deleted] »

vkou wrote: post #140
narag wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Go and read the Soviet Constitution of 1936 (Stalin) [1]. That would be a waste of time. Stalin had no intention to do anything of that and everybody knew where dissension would send them: jail, gulags, torture and death. That's not "a cultural thing", that's just cynism and propaganda. A cultural thing is when everybody wants to make it work but it never really works as intended. But that's more like the government…

Government is part of culture , as there's a feedback loop where culture shapes it, and is shaped by it. It can absolutely happen here, too, if we elect clowns who explicitly want to break the working parts of the system. The ones that have no intentions of making it work (Except in a way that serves them). Laws and constitutions are indeed just pieces of paper, and carry no power in themselves. It's culture that ult…

[deleted]

Re: What Beirut was like before the war (2019)

#186

Post by rayiner »

mike00632 wrote: post #171
rayiner wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most developing countries would be lucky to have the order and competency even of the Trump administration. We aren’t even talking about the same planet here in terms of what’s a functioning democracy. In Bangladesh, the government is putting leaders of the opposition party BNP in jail ( https://learngerman.dw.com/en/bangladesh-court-sentences-opp... ), and even then it’s the most functional government the country ha…

The Trump administration literally attempted a coup.

We left Bangladesh when it was ruled by a military leader that came to power in a coup: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1982_Bangladesh_coup_d%27état. January 6 bears no resemblance to the coups I'm familiar with. More like a failed peasant rebellion.

Re: What Beirut was like before the war (2019)

#187

Post by solveit »

mike00632 wrote: post #171
rayiner wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most developing countries would be lucky to have the order and competency even of the Trump administration. We aren’t even talking about the same planet here in terms of what’s a functioning democracy. In Bangladesh, the government is putting leaders of the opposition party BNP in jail ( https://learngerman.dw.com/en/bangladesh-court-sentences-opp... ), and even then it’s the most functional government the country ha…

The Trump administration literally attempted a coup.

In some countries they call that Tuesday... And the coups often succeed too, and also have military involvement, and aren't embarrassingly poorly executed.

I'm not even talking failed states here, I'm talking about respectable developing countries like Thailand and Turkey. The United States, despite its numerous obvious shortcomings, has it pretty good when it comes to political stability and democracy.

Re: What Beirut was like before the war (2019)

#188

Post by DubiousPusher »

nsajko wrote: post #152
skippyboxedhero wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

100 years? It was basically a first-world country 50 years ago. The decline in living standards in Lebanon is one of the largest ever (Argentina probably the biggest, Venezuela is the other big one, Lebanon is somewhere around Venezuela). Countries can come back (the country that was Austro-Hungary, Slovakia has a city with one of the highest GDP per capita in Europe after massive repeated collapses), but there is (a…

Vague insinuations such as this one always harm the discussion. Why not just communicate clearly? > the country that was Austro-Hungary, Slovakia No, Slovakia wasn't Austria-Hungary, rather it was just a small part of Austria-Hungary (of Hungary, to be more precise). Wasn't even a successor de jure of Austria-Hungary.

Yeah, I assume the city they're referring to is Vienna? Just guessing because of its well known high GDP.

However, the point stands. Many cities were bombed to rubble in WWII and they came back. The same could happen in Beirut if a stable political situation were to emerge. Though there are numerous reasons that will be very difficult.

Re: What Beirut was like before the war (2019)

#189

Post by DubiousPusher »

DiggyJohnson wrote: post #129
fezfight wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, the cause of all human on human suffering since the dawn of time is greed. Its almost a tautology so maybe it didn't need to be said. For the record, I'm a Canadian who went to school with countless Lebanese people in Ottawa. I'm a big fan!

Greed cannot account for all of it. Ignorance, for example, comes to mind instantly.

Well and unscrupulous foreign actors exacerbating a situation for their own ends.

Re: What Beirut was like before the war (2019)

#190

Post by ROARosen »

guelo wrote: post #132
nemesisj wrote: post #4

I follow the referenced instagram account and I actually find it depressing. I've probably visited Beirut 20+ times over the last 7 years. Last visit was summer of 2019, so haven't been since COVID. My company has an office there. It's one of my favorite cities in the world. It's also one of the most heartbreaking situations in economic and humanitarian terms. The country has experienced one of the worst currency cri…

Every country neighboring Israel is a mess since Israel tries to destabilize them to make them weak so that Israel can be the regional superpower.

Last time I checked the leader of Hezbolla, which is part of the government of Lebanon said: "There is no solution to the conflict in this region except with the disappearance of Israel."

Not the other way around.

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