Pine64’s response to “Why I left Pine64”
pine64.org
Pine64’s response to “Why I left Pine64”
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Re: Pine64’s response to “Why I left Pine64”
#2This is a disappointing response. I don't have a horse in this race (besides wanting to have access to good hardware for FOSS platforms), but I do have my ear on the ground in this community, so here are my thoughts on this.
> [removing SPI] was based on the fact that for years SPI was largely unused on PINE64 devices.
People have been arguing that a u-boot firmware needs to be installed on that flash chip for years, too. Essentially everyone in the dev community has been pushing them to do this for essentially the entire lifetime of their product line.
Would you rather find, download, and flash a special-purpose, pinebook-specific image onto a microSD card, pop it in, and boot that up to install a distribution, or would you rather it supports a standard UEFI booting interface over USB, netboot, whatever else, like every other laptop can?
> We created a space for development talks to be held (as we always had)
My understanding from speaking to friends and colleagues who work with Pine64 is that these spaces are pretty toxic. Manjaro has the loudest voice and other projects don't get the respect they deserve. And I'm prepared to believe it if this flippant response quoted in Martijn's article is accurate: "people who want [an SPI chip] can just solder one on."
This is not the behavior that I expect from a project which claims to honor its community.
I'm very disappointed in this response and in PINE64 generally. I expected an apology and a promise to improve, and this isn't it. Pine, I believed in you from the start.[0] I thought you were better than this. The past few years of your behavior has disillusioned me to your project and I can no longer offer you my support.
[0]: https://drewdevault.com/2019/12/18/PinePhone-review.html
Re: Pine64’s response to “Why I left Pine64”
#3As an outsider with no insights (but owning a PineBookPro and considering a PinePhonePro), it surely looks like Manjaro is the king of the mountain - and that Martijn's blogpost is likely close to The Truth.
Listening and doing your own things anyways is the time-honored way of ignoring people...
Even as an Arch user (that hence "gets" Manjaro) that is sad :(
Re: Pine64’s response to “Why I left Pine64”
#4This is a disappointing response. I don't have a horse in this race (besides wanting to have access to good hardware for FOSS platforms), but I do have my ear on the ground in this community, so here are my thoughts on this. > [removing SPI] was based on the fact that for years SPI was largely unused on PINE64 devices. People have been arguing that a u-boot firmware needs to be installed on that flash chip for years,…
The whole story has killed any interest I had in their products. I was interested in buying a Pinebook and Pinephone, but not anymore.
Re: Pine64’s response to “Why I left Pine64”
#5As an outsider with no insights (but owning a PineBookPro and considering a PinePhonePro), it surely looks like Manjaro is the king of the mountain - and that Martijn's blogpost is likely close to The Truth. Listening and doing your own things anyways is the time-honored way of ignoring people... Even as an Arch user (that hence "gets" Manjaro) that is sad :(
About the pinephone pro - DONT.
Much of the device still doesn't even work. And we're talking simple stuff like the cameras. Calling is also super sketchy. You can text but voice calls effectively is a fail.
The IMU does appear to work correctly, for things like rotation. It is pretty fast.
You can also fry your device (hardware damage!) if you get the pinephone keyboard and plug in USBC into the phone port instead of the keyboard port. You read that correctly. Hope you don't mess up if you're tired.
And if your battery on the PPP goes too low, the utter shit firmware goes into a boot loop and can't charge. You have to take off the case and hit the recessed button to put it in DFU mode. That bypasses the firmware causing bootloops. And it's slllloooowwwww charging.
I completely and utterly regret such a shit device. And I say that about the very hardware, AND the reticence in actually putting out base builds of working software.
Re: Pine64’s response to “Why I left Pine64”
#6As an outsider with no insights (but owning a PineBookPro and considering a PinePhonePro), it surely looks like Manjaro is the king of the mountain - and that Martijn's blogpost is likely close to The Truth. Listening and doing your own things anyways is the time-honored way of ignoring people... Even as an Arch user (that hence "gets" Manjaro) that is sad :(
About the pinephone pro - DONT. Much of the device still doesn't even work. And we're talking simple stuff like the cameras. Calling is also super sketchy. You can text but voice calls effectively is a fail. The IMU does appear to work correctly, for things like rotation. It is pretty fast. You can also fry your device (hardware damage!) if you get the pinephone keyboard and plug in USBC into the phone port instead o…
I literally just watched a video on the Pine64 Pro and the reviewer basically said he couldn't recommend it.
Re: Pine64’s response to “Why I left Pine64”
#7This is a disappointing response. I don't have a horse in this race (besides wanting to have access to good hardware for FOSS platforms), but I do have my ear on the ground in this community, so here are my thoughts on this. > [removing SPI] was based on the fact that for years SPI was largely unused on PINE64 devices. People have been arguing that a u-boot firmware needs to be installed on that flash chip for years,…
The whole story has killed any interest I had in their products. I was interested in buying a Pinebook and Pinephone, but not anymore.
I had been looking at an electronic soldering iron they had produced. Not sure how I feel now.
Re: Pine64’s response to “Why I left Pine64”
#8So they included all the hardware requested by Martijn. What remains the rub here?
Re: Pine64’s response to “Why I left Pine64”
#9As an outsider with no insights (but owning a PineBookPro and considering a PinePhonePro), it surely looks like Manjaro is the king of the mountain - and that Martijn's blogpost is likely close to The Truth. Listening and doing your own things anyways is the time-honored way of ignoring people... Even as an Arch user (that hence "gets" Manjaro) that is sad :(
About the pinephone pro - DONT. Much of the device still doesn't even work. And we're talking simple stuff like the cameras. Calling is also super sketchy. You can text but voice calls effectively is a fail. The IMU does appear to work correctly, for things like rotation. It is pretty fast. You can also fry your device (hardware damage!) if you get the pinephone keyboard and plug in USBC into the phone port instead o…
The cameras are far from "the simple stuff", it's one of the more complicated systems in mobile devices with multiple high speed components from different vendors that have to work together and not very much documentation for the hardware existing.
Re: Pine64’s response to “Why I left Pine64”
#10As an outsider with no insights (but owning a PineBookPro and considering a PinePhonePro), it surely looks like Manjaro is the king of the mountain - and that Martijn's blogpost is likely close to The Truth. Listening and doing your own things anyways is the time-honored way of ignoring people... Even as an Arch user (that hence "gets" Manjaro) that is sad :(
About the pinephone pro - DONT. Much of the device still doesn't even work. And we're talking simple stuff like the cameras. Calling is also super sketchy. You can text but voice calls effectively is a fail. The IMU does appear to work correctly, for things like rotation. It is pretty fast. You can also fry your device (hardware damage!) if you get the pinephone keyboard and plug in USBC into the phone port instead o…
So very few lessons learned from the first PinePhone, then