Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Why American cities are broke (2021) [video]

youtube.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

191–200 of 208 posts

Re: Why American cities are broke (2021) [video]

#191

Post by Jensson »

jjav wrote: post #184
theshrike79 wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, my kid walked to school from the first day of the first grade. Now as a fourth grader they just call me when school's out and tell me which friend's house they're going after school and walk there (or notify me if they're coming to our place). Sometimes they stop by the store on the way to get some snacks. And when dinner is ready, we call them home and they walk back. During the summer holidays they scoot or bi…

> An American Suburbia kid could never do any of this without someone calling the police or CPS for child endangerment even if there was a school, shop or a playground within walking distance. There's a lot of generalizations about suburbs in these discussions. From my office window here in suburbia, about a block away from a middle school, every day I see hundreds of kids leave on foot. I imagine most go home in the…

So school busses aren't a thing in USA? Where I live it is hard to find a home that is more than 5-10 minute walking distance to a school, nobody with kids would want to live further than that from schools. Even stand alone single family houses are within that distance of schools, since they are built close around denser suburban centers. If you live in an apartment you are almost always within 5 minutes walk of a school.

Of course there might be places where you live close to these amenities in USA, but you have to pay premium for them since it isn't the norm. In Europe that is the norm and you expect to get it basically no matter where you live, even in the dirt cheap areas. Only exception is if you choose to live in the woods or something far away from other people, I know some who does that but it is a choice. If you live in a small town with a few thousand people you will still be able to walk to buy groceries and to early school. Later school uses the same buss/train system as adults so kids gets to use that.

Re: Why American cities are broke (2021) [video]

#192

Post by [deleted] »

throw0101a wrote: post #161
fezfight wrote: post #30

Does the tone put anyone else off? I feel like I should be his perfect target audience (I cycle everywhere and prefer living in cities with good bike infrastructure) but I find the way he makes his arguments leaves me wanting to disagree with him.

> Does the tone put anyone else off? Jason Slaughter, the author/creator, has said in numerous interviews that it is on purpose. He's tired of the BS from the pro-car, low-density folks, and leans into the snark.

[deleted]

Re: Why American cities are broke (2021) [video]

#193

Post by jjav »

Jensson wrote: post #191
jjav wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> An American Suburbia kid could never do any of this without someone calling the police or CPS for child endangerment even if there was a school, shop or a playground within walking distance. There's a lot of generalizations about suburbs in these discussions. From my office window here in suburbia, about a block away from a middle school, every day I see hundreds of kids leave on foot. I imagine most go home in the…

So school busses aren't a thing in USA? Where I live it is hard to find a home that is more than 5-10 minute walking distance to a school, nobody with kids would want to live further than that from schools. Even stand alone single family houses are within that distance of schools, since they are built close around denser suburban centers. If you live in an apartment you are almost always within 5 minutes walk of a sc…

> So school busses aren't a thing in USA?

Not sure how this relates to my comment? In my suburb area most kids seem walk or bike to school based on the middle school I see from my office window. Hundreds leave walking, some dozens on bikes and only a few dozen cars lined up to pick up kids.

As to school buses, I don't know how it works. It's probably a school-by-school thing. I see some occasionally but not very often.

Re: Why American cities are broke (2021) [video]

#194

Post by jjav »

dionidium wrote: post #190
jjav wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> no tradeoffs for me Of course there are tradeoffs, usually in the form of a longer commute. > In this zone it is illegal to make urban housing. So you'd propose forcefully building your preferred style of housing everywhere, even if the local residents don't want it? Short of declaring a dictatorship, it won't succeed to force everyone to live in the same style of building. A very large part of the population has n…

> So you'd propose forcefully building your preferred style of housing everywhere, even if the local residents don't want it? Forcefully? When someone builds an apartment building on their own private property and voluntarily rents the units to other free actors, then obviously nobody was forced to do anything. The neighbors, on the other hand, would like to force the property owner to do something else with their la…

> It's an enormous country and those people should feel free to hit the bricks (they can move, in other words). Or, hey, this is America. If you want to control what happens on a piece of private property, then buy it.

Those two sentences are contradictory.

If someone owns a plot of land with a single family home, they do get to control it by staying put living in the house they like. They don't have to "hit the bricks" just because you'd prefer to tear it down to build a highrise.

Re: Why American cities are broke (2021) [video]

#195

Post by raxxorraxor »

davidn20 wrote: post #130
raxxorraxor wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't that mean that density in your case is less efficient since you pay more by a supposedly less valuable property?

Depends on your perspective. Yes, it's less efficient for me (individually) because I'm subsidizing suburbs and paying more taxes. But, I was talking about the city, society, or the greater good. Whatever you call it. Higher density is more efficient and uses less resources per capita. Period. Same reason private planes are so bad for the environment.

That might be true that higher density is more efficient, but efficiency isn't a sufficient metric for living overall. Putting everyone in camps would be more efficient too.

But do you really pay for suburbs? As I said, the cost intensive positions scale with the number of people. Schools, utilities, ...

Re: Why American cities are broke (2021) [video]

#196

Post by danielrpa »

I live in a Suburban county that has seen pretty slow growth for decades and then exploded around 30 years ago. This county is very financially responsible and has done a fantastic job at keeping up with its expenses - before and after the explosion. There is no big city in the county (most of it is not even incorporated in a city), so the bills are paid by the county property taxes and some by the state government.

However, this county makes disproportionally high per capita state income tax contributions, to the tune of 2x/3x per capita compared to the nearby big city. As a matter of fact, myself and my county fellows heavily subsidize big city programs in the state: not only the big city's high traffic/maintenance crumbling roads, but schools, money losing public transportation, rent assistance, health programs, elderly assistance etc. What we spend in our arguably inefficient road network is a pittance compared to these.

Re: Why American cities are broke (2021) [video]

#197

Post by danielrpa »

stjohnswarts wrote: post #140
foobarian wrote: post #17

I am biased because I quite like living in the suburbs, and get quite suspicious when some manifesto comes up that dictates I should feel bad for it. Why is the solution to live in better designed cities instead of better designed suburbs? Are cities still necessary given the modern conditions?

Most far leftists would like us all to live in concrete towers, in small apartments, sharing a common bathroom area for maximum efficiency and density. Probably with mixed in sources of food and drink but not much in the way of consumerist "excess". It doesn't account for ideas of freedom or individuality or needing to see the sunlight. The problem with this is that it doesn't account for the rebellion that happens w…

The far leftists would, however, reserve for themselves a nice piece of suburbia as the rulers need good living conditions to properly plan people's lives.

Re: Why American cities are broke (2021) [video]

#198

Post by causi »

laverya wrote: post #178
causi wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think his conclusions are great if you're working based off his examples. Like he brings up an example of a small neighborhood that, if it paid for its own road maintenance, would have to raise property taxes by 46% like that would be more than a mild inconvenience for the privilege of not living in a human hive.

If it paid for its own road maintenance, and no other services such as water or sewer , they would need a 46% property tax increase just to cover that one thing .

I'd be willing and able to pay quintuple my current property tax to keep the number of times I hear a car horn on my commute at one or two a week instead of one every ten seconds. Lots of other people are the same. An increase in cost of living in suburbs would be annoying but far from the "suburbs are a grotesque impossibility" stance of Charles Marohn.

Re: Why American cities are broke (2021) [video]

#199

Post by baby »

technovader wrote: post #71
baby wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does SF really have poor infrastructure btw? Compared to any city in Europe sure, but compared to cities in the US?

That's exactly the point though. Americans have no idea how terrible their cities are because they only compare to themselves. It's ALL terrible. Please DO compare to Europe. Let's strive for better cities period, not just OK in the context of North America.

I was thinking, for a city of 800k inhabitants, it's not that bad. But then I lived in Bordeaux which has 250k inhabitants and public transport was so amazing. I basically don't take public transport in SF anymore because I find it too dangerous, whereas I never once took a taxi or drove in Bordeaux (in 2 years there).

Re: Why American cities are broke (2021) [video]

#200

Post by Ensorceled »

TrispusAttucks wrote: post #185
Ensorceled wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm trying to figure out if you are agreeing with me or arguing with me. Rural: Low usage, low maintenance low services (road,power,internet), low tax base Urban: High usage, high maintenance, high services (water, sewer, road, power, internet, transit), high tax base Suburban: High usage, high maintenance, high services (water, sewer, road, power, internet, transit), low tax base Only one of these, by necessity need…

I was under the (perhaps mistaken) impression that property tax on suburban property is quite high.

Yes, but it's still not close to the total aggregated costs of delivery of services. Suburbs are REALLY inefficient and expensive.
Post reply on HN