It's broken in India.
Can the Visa-Mastercard duopoly be broken?
461–470 of 703 posts
Re: Can the Visa-Mastercard duopoly be broken?
#462Earlier quoted context omitted.
Interesting, I did not know that! It’s always worked instantly for me, even got a few thousand dollar transfers.
My credit union has a $250 per day cap and $500 per week. It really limits Zelle's usefulness.
Bank of America limits: $2500/d, $10.000/7d $20.000/30d
https://www.bankofamerica.com/online-banking/zelle-transfer-...
Re: Can the Visa-Mastercard duopoly be broken?
#463Earlier quoted context omitted.
As your post illustrates credit cards are really a solution developped for the deficiencies in the US banking system which have been exported to the rest of the world due to the dominance of the US market. 20 years when I was still living in Germany, hardly anyone had a credit card, while everyone was using automatic payments and electronic wiretransfers. I was very surprised when later (about 13 years ago) a US frie…
This, absolutely. It is totally embarrassing to watch my UK family or EU friends interact with their banking systems and compare it with the US. To be fair, things are improving a little bit. But we're still so very far behind the EU banking system. Instant, cost-free transfers between any two accounts, completed faster than you can lift your finger off your smartphone.
Any idea what it's like in Canada, similar to the US?
Re: Can the Visa-Mastercard duopoly be broken?
#464Earlier quoted context omitted.
This does not negate the parent post at all. You're just describing another deficiency of the US banking system.
Out of curiosity, how do European banks avoid this issue? If my debit card or ACH info is compromised and someone drains my checking account, is there a way to use the stolen funds before the bank/court finishes their investigation?
German banks require the account owner's permission to pull money from a bank account and the owner has a 6 week window to get all their money back, no questions asked.
"SEPA Lastschriftverfahren" is what it's called.
Re: Can the Visa-Mastercard duopoly be broken?
#465Earlier quoted context omitted.
The fees are 3% only in the US and the bulk of that is returned to buyers as cash back or loyalty points, and to offset the cost of loan origination and warranties. The EU has capped debit interchange at .2% and credit at .3%, Australia in the low 1s if I recall correctly. They just don’t really have rewards.
Nobody really has rewards. We don't have them in Europe, and some people in the USA think they have them. What they have is crazy high credit card fees and the need to juggle a bunch around to get a few things credit card companies decided to buy for you en masse. When I buy a $5 latte, I give Visa $0.01. When you do the same, you pay $0.15. Come the hell on. "REWARDS". Smh.
> some people in the USA think they have them
You're wrong, the rewards (cash back) is real.
At some philosophical level you're correct. Sure, the merchant is being charged extra fees and the cash back is less than that.
But pragmatically, the merchant already included that cost in the price of the item so it is what it is.
You buy that $5 latte cash, it costs you $5. You buy it with a debit card it costs you $5.
I buy it with a credit card it costs me $5 but I get 10 cents back at the end of the month.
Re: Can the Visa-Mastercard duopoly be broken?
#466Earlier quoted context omitted.
Nobody really has rewards. We don't have them in Europe, and some people in the USA think they have them. What they have is crazy high credit card fees and the need to juggle a bunch around to get a few things credit card companies decided to buy for you en masse. When I buy a $5 latte, I give Visa $0.01. When you do the same, you pay $0.15. Come the hell on. "REWARDS". Smh.
I get a minimum 2.6% cash back on everything I purchase, but most things I get 3.5% to 5.25% cash back. There are a bunch of free 2% cash back credit cards, so people would at least break even if they wanted to.
> I get a minimum 2.6% cash back on everything I purchase, but most things I get 3.5% to 5.25% cash back.
Which credit card do you have? I'd like to ugprade to that one.
Re: Can the Visa-Mastercard duopoly be broken?
#467Earlier quoted context omitted.
As your post illustrates credit cards are really a solution developped for the deficiencies in the US banking system which have been exported to the rest of the world due to the dominance of the US market. 20 years when I was still living in Germany, hardly anyone had a credit card, while everyone was using automatic payments and electronic wiretransfers. I was very surprised when later (about 13 years ago) a US frie…
Well from my perspective Germany is incredibly backwards with payment infrastructure (apparently has got somewhat better during covid). I've been many many times and so many places do not accept any debit/credit card, only cash. It is incredibly annoying especially at restaurants and you want to pay for a group. Youre right about the rest but in the US card acceptance is very very high (same in the UK, Nordics, etc).…
That’s due to societal reasons though not really technical ones. In many cases it’s the businesses not being willing to pay the extra fees at all, regardless of how low they are.
This seems to indeed have started to rapidly change with covid.
Re: Can the Visa-Mastercard duopoly be broken?
#468Earlier quoted context omitted.
This, absolutely. It is totally embarrassing to watch my UK family or EU friends interact with their banking systems and compare it with the US. To be fair, things are improving a little bit. But we're still so very far behind the EU banking system. Instant, cost-free transfers between any two accounts, completed faster than you can lift your finger off your smartphone.
And the EU system is way behind India’s UPI. That system really is a dream. It turned India into the world’s largest real time payment market and basically is Google’s model for FedNow they’re pitching to the federal government. It’s also what the EU is trying to emulate.
Yeah, it's a dream come true. When I got my first credit card, I was very happy. But later within 2 years UPI got introduced, my credit card activity got decreased because it is far more easy to do transaction with UPI than CCs.
And when Indian Government declared BankNote Demonetization in 2016, it further boosted UPI because people don't had the cash, so ultimately online transaction is the only option. At that time, E-Wallet also made a hype but it wasn't feasible.
UPI has many advantage for both users and merchants. And further Google also introduced their UPI app Google Pay along with some local players like PhonePe and PayTm which makes UPI transaction easy not just to send money to other be it friends or a merchant but mobile recharge, Bills, insurance, etc. can be done from these apps via UPI.
Re: Can the Visa-Mastercard duopoly be broken?
#469Fraud protection of credit cards is the root of modern e-commerce. In some ways, Visa and Mastercard are the privatized court systems of the internet. If I end up on a random, self-hosted ecommerce site and decide to make a purchase - what guarantee do I have that the item will show up or be as-described? If I bought something through a bank transfer, reversing that purchase would be incredibly difficult. And, suing…
People are happy to pay 3% fees because it can be cheaper and easier than using cash.
Freaking with large sums of cash can be time consuming and expensive.
Re: Can the Visa-Mastercard duopoly be broken?
#470Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Instant, cost-free transfers between any two accounts, completed faster than you can lift your finger off your smartphone. This is available to most people in the US via Zelle. I have been using it for nearly 10 years I think. https://www.zellepay.com/get-started Ideally, the federal government would have already made it a utility available to all, but for now the functionality is there for those who can get a bank…
The problem with Zelle is that it's not safe to use for anything except payments to friends and family. The Zelle user agreement [1] puts this warning in all-caps: "YOU SHOULD NOT USE THE ZELLE® SERVICE TO SEND MONEY TO PERSONS WITH WHOM YOU ARE NOT FAMILIAR OR YOU DO NOT TRUST. ZELLE® DOES NOT OFFER A PROTECTION PROGRAM FOR AUTHORIZED PAYMENTS MADE WITH THE SERVICE" [1] https://www.zellepay.com/legal/user-service-ag…
I've never heard of any protection like this in the EU banking system. If you transfer money to a scammer it's simply gone.
It sucks for the 0,0001% of people who get scammed some time but is it really needed that the bank takes on this role?