Arrest of suspected developer of Tornado Cash • Hacker News Board

Re: Arrest of suspected developer of Tornado Cash

#821

Post by once_inc » Tue, Aug 16, 2022, 8:02 PM UTC

threeseed wrote: post #66

once_inc wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Building a mixing service that allows people to buy stuff without their employers being able to track it is a legitimate, non-trivial reason. These mixers are privacy enhancers. Privacy is a general term, and doesn't have to relate to evading the government. If you don't want your employer to know you've bought an NFT from your company's direct competitor, that is a privacy request too.

Except that privacy is not some human right enshrined in law that usurps other laws. If you facilitate money laundering that is still a crime even if the intent was for legitimate reasons like privacy.

Article 12 of the United Nations's Universal Declaration of Human Rights [0] would like a word.

[0] https://www.un.org/en/about-us/universal-declaration-of-huma....

Re: Arrest of suspected developer of Tornado Cash

#822

Post by tekknik » Wed, Aug 17, 2022, 3:57 AM UTC

notch656a wrote: post #817

tekknik wrote: post #815

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve just explained why, using your spectrum, it’s on the lower end. I completely understand that guns are difficult to understand for non gun owners, they simply don't do any research. Couple that with the amount of research required to be knowledgeable takes weeks or even months for even the most competent of us. But imagine what you sound like to someone who is knowledgeable. It’s like someone challenging a PhD on…

FWIW the AR is fundamentally a platform, although in its pure form it does refer to the "underpowered" variant. Hunters might chamber 6.5 grendel, which is a nice intermediate cartridge commonly used to take down larger deer and elk. People who own firearms love the AR in part because it is so easy to change configuration and even caliber like legos. There are even AR chambered in .50 cal (but not that .50 cal).

I pointed that out one comment up yes. But the general argument is against that of the .223/5.56 configuration.

Re: Arrest of suspected developer of Tornado Cash

#823

Post by seanw444 » Wed, Aug 17, 2022, 2:30 PM UTC

notch656a wrote: post #818

sgjohnson wrote: post #783

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The “well regulated” means “proficient, properly equipped, well trained, functioning as expected” or similar. You have to assess that phrase in the context of 18th century English. It has no relation whatsoever to what “regulation” means nowadays. > Do you think everyone should own a machine gun if they want? How about a rocket launcher? But almost everyone can own a machine gun or a rocket launcher, where not forbid…

Enjoy the hocus pocus hand waving below of your counterparty trying to explain the why the framers' writing of the 2nd amendment implicitly meant to to allow the kind of logic that machine guns from 1985 are ok but not ones from 1987.

And that the founders had zero foresight to assume weapons technology would advance significantly beyond muskets. I mean really, do people think they were actual idiots?

Re: Arrest of suspected developer of Tornado Cash

#824

Post by seanw444 » Wed, Aug 17, 2022, 2:39 PM UTC

babypuncher wrote: post #513

seanw444 wrote: post #473

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Taking some leads to all. It's not something that should be compromised on. Gun restrictions won't end until ownership is so legally complex and time consuming that nobody can reasonably do it anymore. Of course it won't be an outright ban. That would never succeed. The frog in boiling water analogy applies here perfectly.

Would that really be a bad thing? Most other developed nations seem to get by fine with very strict rules on gun ownership, and coincidentally they have far lower rates for gun violence. When something has far more capacity for harm than practical utility, it makes sense to regulate the crap out of it. Most people buying AR-15s in the US are not buying them to keep pests off their farm.

Yes it would be. I've come to understand that if you are well-versed on history, you'll come to the conclusion that taking civilian access to arms is a slippery slope that absolutely should not be tried again. I'd rather history not repeat itself once more.

Re: Arrest of suspected developer of Tornado Cash

#825

Post by sgjohnson » Wed, Aug 17, 2022, 5:04 PM UTC

seanw444 wrote: post #823

notch656a wrote: post #818

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Enjoy the hocus pocus hand waving below of your counterparty trying to explain the why the framers' writing of the 2nd amendment implicitly meant to to allow the kind of logic that machine guns from 1985 are ok but not ones from 1987.

And that the founders had zero foresight to assume weapons technology would advance significantly beyond muskets. I mean really, do people think they were actual idiots?

To be fair, I doubt that they expected that nuclear weapons would be developed, and I'm sure they wouldn't be okay with chemical weapons either. But that's the strawman argument.

After all, the 2nd amendment was written at a time when civilian ownership of warships was okay, so I don't see how it shouldn't extend to all arms—past, present, and future.

Re: Arrest of suspected developer of Tornado Cash

#826

Post by sneed-oil » Wed, Aug 17, 2022, 9:30 PM UTC

giaour wrote: post #820

sneed-oil wrote: post #801

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If tornado cash were just obscuring transactions that could have conceivably been finalized with cash by private parties (~ A 200 euro banknote's dimensions are about 153x77x0.113 mm, if we consider double that thickness (because unless they're brand new, banknotes tend to crumple) we get that 2,253,400 euros will have a volume of 30 liters, which should fit in a backpack. If you wanted to use the more common 50 eu…

That amount of cash is heavy and difficult to obtain. It's possible, but it's certainly not ergonomic, and in the US, withdrawing $10K+ in cash from a bank will create a paper trail. The 500 euro note, which would allow you to carry an even larger sum in the same 30 liters, was discontinued because European authorities were concerned about how much the note was being used to facilitate illegal activity: https://www.b…

Both cash and crypto have their downsides when it comes to money laundering. A non-tech savy person might not trust their crypto transactions to remain anonymous or their funds to be safe, because at the end of the day the only way you can be sure of that is if you read and understood the code. For that kind of person the weight of cash is the lesser issue. I've been told that decades ago my dad's uncle would go on trips to Switzerland with bags full of cash.

Re: Arrest of suspected developer of Tornado Cash

#827

Post by kortilla » Wed, Aug 17, 2022, 11:56 PM UTC

bb88 wrote: post #775

kortilla wrote: post #746

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? A felony doesn’t imply violence. If someone serves their time I don’t see why they should be a lesser person for life.

But it does show a lack of respect for the rule of law, as well often a lack of empathy for others. The best predictor of whether you will commit a crime in the future, is if you've committed one in the past. I think the hardest one to talk about is the non-violent sex offender -- CSAM and the like. They have a high re-offending rate, and rehabilitation efforts aren't very effective in this area. On one hand they're…

>The best predictor of whether you will commit a crime in the future, is if you've committed one in the past.

This is called recidivism and it’s a product of fuckwads like yourself who write people off for life the first time they run afoul of the law. It’s a bit of a self fulfilling prophecy that people return to crime when society deems them as subhuman when they return from prison.

> On one hand they're only a handgun away from being a violent offender

You’re only a handgun away from being a violent offender by that simple logic. You’re literally talking about non-violent people suddenly becoming violent for no reason.