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Vietnam to make Apple Watch and MacBook

asia.nikkei.com

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Re: Vietnam to make Apple Watch and MacBook

#101

Post by aaronbrethorst »

r00fus wrote: post #69
tunap wrote: post #5

I suppose this means Wisconsin is SOL. https://www.theregister.com/2022/05/25/foxconn_wisconsin_fac...

Most likely Foxconn/WI just crony capitalism and political circus. Numerous articles over the past years about complete lack of delivery by Foxconn and lack of political followthrough from WI state government.

Let's be clear about what actually happened here: Donald Trump and Scott Walker wanted a 'win,' Foxconn was able to get some terrific subsidies, and Wisconsinites got a raw deal out of it.

https://www.theregister.com/2022/05/25/foxconn_wisconsin_fac...

Re: Vietnam to make Apple Watch and MacBook

#102

Post by kube-system »

wbsss4412 wrote: post #86
tasubotadas wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Capitalism is one of the biggest eradicators of poverty. 1B of people in China was lifted from poverty because of it. And once it's done with one poor country, it starts taking care of the others :)

The China duality: It seems that China is a capitalist country when people want to discuss their achievements, and a communist country when they want to discuss their faults.

Well yeah, they are both; China has a mixed economy.

Re: Vietnam to make Apple Watch and MacBook

#103

Post by kcb »

LtWorf wrote: post #88
gleenn wrote: post #27

How is no one mentioning that China is threatening Taiwan. If the US ends up in a war with China, suddenly most Apple products would have serious operations problems if not being shut off completely. Cheap labor isn't a bad reason, but this is also a hedge against the heating politics between the West and both Russia and China.

Quoted post unavailable.

Yeah and Russia was not preparing to invade Ukraine.

Re: Vietnam to make Apple Watch and MacBook

#104

Post by yrgulation »

dav_Oz wrote: post #94
yrgulation wrote: post #49

At some point we should outsource our armies and perhaps even governments. If a real war starts we can use the services industry, unless we outsource that too. We’ll send the lawyers and software engineers in, and power our cardboard tanks with wood and steam. I was hoping the pandemic and the war in europe would teach us that electronics, particularly high end, should be relocated to allied countries at the very lea…

Well, there is some substantial outsourcing of the army and intelligence services via private (military) contractors [0]. In a world of increasing PPP (Public-Private Partnerships) the line gets very blurry indeed. One interesting line of thought (I don't share personally (yet) but find compelling as a dystopian possibility) is that the dirty business of censoring/filtering is outsourced by private companies (i.e. Bi…

I dont want to sound like trump but even a broken clock is right twice a day. We have truly made a joke of ourselves.

Re: Vietnam to make Apple Watch and MacBook

#105

Post by mattigames »

tasubotadas wrote: post #25
mgraczyk wrote: post #19

A lot of comments here are criticizing Apple for chasing cheap labor. Ignoring for a second the fact that this has a lot more to do with geopolitics and hedging geopolitical risk, I think it's important to think more carefully about the impact of companies investing in developing economies. By and large, the factory work done by people in developing economies is dramatically better in terms of quality of life and saf…

Capitalism is one of the biggest eradicators of poverty. 1B of people in China was lifted from poverty because of it. And once it's done with one poor country, it starts taking care of the others :)

Did it eradicated poverty in Burundi? South Sudan? Malawi? Pakistan? I can cherry pick examples too; means nothing, and what about the tankman? Was he lifted out of poverty? Or all the other victims of the goverment? Also China capitalism includes things like stealing tech secrets from the companies that manufacture there[0], is that part of the "ideal capitalism" you advocate for?

[0] https://money.cnn.com/2017/08/14/news/economy/trump-china-tr...

Re: Vietnam to make Apple Watch and MacBook

#107

Post by wbsss4412 »

relativ575 wrote: post #95
wbsss4412 wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The China duality: It seems that China is a capitalist country when people want to discuss their achievements, and a communist country when they want to discuss their faults.

They are capitalism since private sector is allowed and encouraged. They are an authoritarian country as there is no democracy and there can be a single political party. Why is that so difficult to understand? They call their country communist because they can't afford to undermine the legacy of the communist party by admitting that they made huge mistakes in the past.

China is dominated by state owned enterprises and many of the private investment is in joint ventures with local governmental authorities.

People like to gloss over the more complex reality that is Chinas actual economic structure when it benefits their personal ideological agenda.

Re: Vietnam to make Apple Watch and MacBook

#108

Post by rjzzleep »

jollybean wrote: post #54
rjzzleep wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a political move. Vietnamese manufacturing is cheaper than Chinese. Chinese labour has gotten expensive over time. EDIT: politics are definitely a welcome side effect, but not the main reason

Since the Russia-Ukraine war broke out politics is now a primary driver. China has indicated that it is 100% going to retake Taiwan. Their threat is credible. There were indications it would be soon. War is a 'new reality' again and we can see the consequences of it. If you have geopolitical liabilities and you have 10 year strategic planning, then you calculate the odds of 'major conflict' the diversifying away from…

Your little rant seems to have missed that these companies are still owned by Foxxconn and Luxshare. And while Foxxconn may be Taiwanese both the company and the owner are on very very friendly terms with China, which is unlikely to change.

The world didn't start with 2022 Ukraine(even the Ukraine conflict didn't magically begin in 2022), most of these conflicts started long before Ukraine. The Indian foreign minister also tried to remind the world that it's foolish to try to make everything about Ukraine(see minute 2:30) and yet people don't seem to want to understand the viewpoints of the other 5 billion[1].

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2EdQD_Eag0

Re: Vietnam to make Apple Watch and MacBook

#109

Post by killjoywashere »

koheripbal wrote: post #38
mgraczyk wrote: post #19

A lot of comments here are criticizing Apple for chasing cheap labor. Ignoring for a second the fact that this has a lot more to do with geopolitics and hedging geopolitical risk, I think it's important to think more carefully about the impact of companies investing in developing economies. By and large, the factory work done by people in developing economies is dramatically better in terms of quality of life and saf…

There is a lot of dishonesty around Westerners complaining about foreign cheap labor. They claim to be championing labor rights, but they are often just angered at companies for stopping all manufacturing in the West. They see it as an obvious weakness in their ideology that companies can just walk away from their labor movement and go elsewhere. The obvious truth, and what literally all of these Vietnamese workers w…

> The true story with China is that moving Western manufacturing to China raised the standard of living for literally hundreds of millions of Chinese people out of poverty.

And thereby strengthened the hand of the CCP.

Re: Vietnam to make Apple Watch and MacBook

#110

Post by wbsss4412 »

kube-system wrote: post #102
wbsss4412 wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The China duality: It seems that China is a capitalist country when people want to discuss their achievements, and a communist country when they want to discuss their faults.

Well yeah, they are both; China has a mixed economy.

They are indeed.

It is quite clear, however, that most analyses of their economic successes don’t add that nuance and come to the predetermined conclusion that I outlined above: the success is due completely to adopting western capitalism, and the negatives are due to the elements that don’t fit that mold.

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