Vietnam to make Apple Watch and MacBook • Hacker News Board

Re: Vietnam to make Apple Watch and MacBook

#71

Post by yrgulation » Wed, Aug 17, 2022, 9:14 PM UTC

scarface74 wrote: post #59

yrgulation wrote: post #49

At some point we should outsource our armies and perhaps even governments. If a real war starts we can use the services industry, unless we outsource that too. We’ll send the lawyers and software engineers in, and power our cardboard tanks with wood and steam. I was hoping the pandemic and the war in europe would teach us that electronics, particularly high end, should be relocated to allied countries at the very lea…

You’re ignoring the entire dependence on the worldwide supply chain. That’s like Cook making a show of “manufacturing Mac Pros” in the US for Trump when only final assembly was done here. He did the same dog and pony show in Great Brittain.

Well thats the issue. The whole suite of dependencies needs to be moved back, except where impossible - i.e. minerals etc.

Having moved all of this outside the free world we slowed down progress in our own countries. Imagine being forced to come up with cheaper alternatives at home where we’d be with robotics, automation and space mining today. Instead we finance countries that seek to challenge us.

Re: Vietnam to make Apple Watch and MacBook

#72

Post by Aunche » Wed, Aug 17, 2022, 9:15 PM UTC

koheripbal wrote: post #38

mgraczyk wrote: post #19

A lot of comments here are criticizing Apple for chasing cheap labor. Ignoring for a second the fact that this has a lot more to do with geopolitics and hedging geopolitical risk, I think it's important to think more carefully about the impact of companies investing in developing economies. By and large, the factory work done by people in developing economies is dramatically better in terms of quality of life and saf…

There is a lot of dishonesty around Westerners complaining about foreign cheap labor. They claim to be championing labor rights, but they are often just angered at companies for stopping all manufacturing in the West. They see it as an obvious weakness in their ideology that companies can just walk away from their labor movement and go elsewhere. The obvious truth, and what literally all of these Vietnamese workers w…

If you want to decrease inequality, it would make sense for people to be compensated for reducing inequality. This is what exactly what outsourcing is.

Re: Vietnam to make Apple Watch and MacBook

#73

Post by prox » Wed, Aug 17, 2022, 9:15 PM UTC

pishpash wrote: post #41

eej71 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If anything, the decline in needing cheap labor is going to be a problem for large countries like China. China needed those cheap labor factories to be the engine to help lift people out of rural poverty. Unfortunately that engine will now falter and many will be left behind. For an eye opening survey here, I highly recommend the book Invisible China.

If they are poorer than people in Vietnam they can just go to Vietnam to work. That's not that much different than going to southern China to work. It is almost a common market.

Wouldn’t Vietnamese people be massively favored? How much chance would a common Chinese person have. Language is also different enough, and culture probably as well.

Re: Vietnam to make Apple Watch and MacBook

#74

Post by alphabetting » Wed, Aug 17, 2022, 9:15 PM UTC

scarface74 wrote: post #67

alphabetting wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would Apple decide to build in Vietnam after secretly committing $275B to advance Chinese manufacturing? Western political heat seems most logical.

How does Apple “secretly” commit to spending $275B? It couldn’t be too much of a secret if random HN posters know about it.

it was secret for years until The Information reported it.

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/12/report-apple-ceo-tim...

Re: Vietnam to make Apple Watch and MacBook

#75

Post by rdbell » Wed, Aug 17, 2022, 9:18 PM UTC

yrgulation wrote: post #49

At some point we should outsource our armies and perhaps even governments. If a real war starts we can use the services industry, unless we outsource that too. We’ll send the lawyers and software engineers in, and power our cardboard tanks with wood and steam. I was hoping the pandemic and the war in europe would teach us that electronics, particularly high end, should be relocated to allied countries at the very lea…

International trade dependency is one of the biggest deterrents to war and often helps countries become allies.

Re: Vietnam to make Apple Watch and MacBook

#76

Post by kelnos » Wed, Aug 17, 2022, 9:18 PM UTC

scarface74 wrote: post #62

chaosbutters314 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

2 words: national security. as the world's police and adult, we have to be self sufficient in food, tech, defense, resources, etc

And good luck with that with China holding so much of our debt. Military leaders in the US for decades has been warning politicians that our debt is one of our biggest threats.

China holds 3.2% of the US's outstanding debt[0]. I'm not particularly worried about that angle. Even if China owned an order of magnitude more, what practical benefits would that confer?

[0] https://www.investopedia.com/articles/investing/080615/china...

Re: Vietnam to make Apple Watch and MacBook

#77

Post by r00fus » Wed, Aug 17, 2022, 9:18 PM UTC

scarface74 wrote: post #62

chaosbutters314 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

2 words: national security. as the world's police and adult, we have to be self sufficient in food, tech, defense, resources, etc

And good luck with that with China holding so much of our debt. Military leaders in the US for decades has been warning politicians that our debt is one of our biggest threats.

The number one holder of US debt is not China. It's US investors and own citizens from Social Security "entitlements" (misnomer: they are fully funded by our mandatory contributions).

https://datalab.usaspending.gov/americas-finance-guide/debt/...

Re: Vietnam to make Apple Watch and MacBook

#78

Post by kelnos » Wed, Aug 17, 2022, 9:22 PM UTC

threeseed wrote: post #55

gleenn wrote: post #27

How is no one mentioning that China is threatening Taiwan. If the US ends up in a war with China, suddenly most Apple products would have serious operations problems if not being shut off completely. Cheap labor isn't a bad reason, but this is also a hedge against the heating politics between the West and both Russia and China.

Also based on recent analysis many countries e.g. China, South Korea have increased exports to Russia including dual use technologies which are prohibited under recent sanctions. This combined with upcoming war games involving China and Russia shows clearly where their allegiances lie. So the risk of China being economically punished is not insignificant and Apple is very likely to be caught in the cross-fire if it d…

I have a hard time blaming Southe Korea here. Russia and China are their literal neighbors. If China decided to invade SK, their relationship with the US wouldn't save them.

Russia wouldn't have quite as much military success there right now (given their preoccupation in Ukraine), but it makes sense to keep them happy.

Re: Vietnam to make Apple Watch and MacBook

#79

Post by mattigames » Wed, Aug 17, 2022, 9:24 PM UTC

mgraczyk wrote: post #19

A lot of comments here are criticizing Apple for chasing cheap labor. Ignoring for a second the fact that this has a lot more to do with geopolitics and hedging geopolitical risk, I think it's important to think more carefully about the impact of companies investing in developing economies. By and large, the factory work done by people in developing economies is dramatically better in terms of quality of life and saf…

Can't shake the feeling that a similar rationality was used to partially justify trading slaves "The new master feeds them bread and milk instead of just rice and water! Its a clear win for them!". Yeah I get it, its an improvement for sure but maybe the problem has roots a bit deeper that must be adressed and therefore righfully critized despite being an improvement.

Re: Vietnam to make Apple Watch and MacBook

#80

Post by toomanyrichies » Wed, Aug 17, 2022, 9:24 PM UTC

pishpash wrote: post #41

eej71 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If anything, the decline in needing cheap labor is going to be a problem for large countries like China. China needed those cheap labor factories to be the engine to help lift people out of rural poverty. Unfortunately that engine will now falter and many will be left behind. For an eye opening survey here, I highly recommend the book Invisible China.

If they are poorer than people in Vietnam they can just go to Vietnam to work. That's not that much different than going to southern China to work. It is almost a common market.

Given their poverty, are you certain they have enough disposable income (let alone the personal freedom) to just pick up and move to an entirely new country?