I like the honest, modest, realistic goals of this project. Looks interesting.
RavynOS – Finesse of macOS, freedom of FreeBSD
301–310 of 387 posts
Re: RavynOS – Finesse of macOS, freedom of FreeBSD
#302Earlier quoted context omitted.
I didn't notice the misaligned logo until you pointed it out (but I'm a guy who prefers 'ugly things that work ' rather than 'unusable junk that looks good') What I did notice though was th first screenshot with the red, yellow, green buttons of osx window titles. I think this is a really bad design, and I don't understand how people can like this. Sure, nice round "buttons", but very unclear what their purpose is. I…
> I've used Mac for years, and still don't know what the yellow button does. Minimize. That’s what the yellow button does. It’s as simple as clicking it once.
Kind of unrelated to the actual discussion but I just realised that I never minimize things on mac. I know what the yellow bubble does, never once clicked it, neither used the shortcut whatever it is.
Is this common? I used it on windows but for years now, I have a ton of windows on top of each other or I just cmd+w my way out of one.
Maybe this is the idiomatic way and I’m not an outlier though. Is it?
Re: RavynOS – Finesse of macOS, freedom of FreeBSD
#303Earlier quoted context omitted.
Most entries in posters list are complaints with how things work. Two of these seem like bugs. > Sometimes audio balance will randomly shift to the left or right with bluetooth headphones > There is a delay of ~100ms when pushing caps lock Another seems objective not subjective > Pressing enter in Finder renames a file instead of opening it Who thinks the enter to rename is reasonable?
Audio balance seems like a bug. Caps Lock delay seems like accidental activation prevention. Who thinks F2 to rename is reasonable?
Having it delayed by a portion of a second can never in any way shape or form prevent accidental activation as you don't have time to notice and correct the matter. It IS just enough to prevent several characters from being entered in the correct case.
Users expect actions to match the sequence of inputs. If the user can type CAPS and "TITLE" and get "tITLE" its a bug.
Basically 50 years of computer interfaces of all kids across all OS across planet earth use enter or return for activation. This includes Mac in all other contexts.
F2 to rename dates back to windows 3.1 with environments like KDE using the same key that is familiar to windows users. Like many things it is an arbitrary choice without any inherently correct answer. The nice thing about it is in dolphin is that one can easily discover this by right clicking a file or folder and noting the shortcut listed beside the action so you can both complete the task visually immediately and learn the hotkey easily.
Re: RavynOS – Finesse of macOS, freedom of FreeBSD
#304Ex graphic designer here, but don't (and never have) used Mac. I highly respect this project and initiative, and the following is more a commentary on my own reaction than your product. I read the title--finesse of MacOS. I open the link, and the first thing I see at the top is the circular raven logo vertically misaligned with the header on mobile. That made me think, okay let's try desktop version instead, so I swi…
I didn't notice the misaligned logo until you pointed it out (but I'm a guy who prefers 'ugly things that work ' rather than 'unusable junk that looks good') What I did notice though was th first screenshot with the red, yellow, green buttons of osx window titles. I think this is a really bad design, and I don't understand how people can like this. Sure, nice round "buttons", but very unclear what their purpose is. I…
> I think this is a really bad design, and I don't understand how people can like this.
What do you think would be better? Can you give an example?
Re: RavynOS – Finesse of macOS, freedom of FreeBSD
#305Ex graphic designer here, but don't (and never have) used Mac. I highly respect this project and initiative, and the following is more a commentary on my own reaction than your product. I read the title--finesse of MacOS. I open the link, and the first thing I see at the top is the circular raven logo vertically misaligned with the header on mobile. That made me think, okay let's try desktop version instead, so I swi…
> but the screenshots look great and definitely look like MacOS
Some do, but many look quite janky -- for example, check out the grey menu bar with Windows-98-style underlined shortcut keys in this one: https://ravynos.com/images/airyx_0.3.0pre_about.png
Perhaps I'm missing something, but this doesn't seem particularly visually different than the "aqua skins" that have been available on *nix for years.
Re: RavynOS – Finesse of macOS, freedom of FreeBSD
#306The challenge of course will always be hardware—notice the evolution of Asahi Linux on Apple hardware and how difficult it is. Then, throw in the device driver hellscape (wifi cards, drives, sound, video, etc.)
This OS sounds like a dream for me, but I have to imagine it will take many years and a lot of willing experimenters to make it usable. I wish I had that kind of time.
Re: RavynOS – Finesse of macOS, freedom of FreeBSD
#307Being able to CMD+c to copy things in a terminal is one of my favorite things about programming on a Mac. Ctrl+c to copy everywhere, except the terminal (there it instead is an interrupt) is a major annoyance working in Linux
If it helps, the vast majority of linux terminal emulators support rebinding ctrl-c to copy and ctrl-v to paste. Or simply copying to clipboard on select: https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Copying_text_from_a_termina... The default is usually ctrl-shift-c to copy and ctrl-c to send sigint - but setting the copy command to ctrl-c will usually flip them, making sigint ctrl-shift-c. I enable this on basically all the ter…
Ctrl-v was SIGINT long before it was a shortcut for paste (first added in Windows 3.1). Although it can be switched now, it hasn't always been so. Of all the things that desktops (I'm not going to say Linux, as it isn't a Linux issue as it affect every system that uses KDE/GNOME and the like) designed to run on top of *nix like systems that were copied from Windows, this one really boggles my mind.
Re: RavynOS – Finesse of macOS, freedom of FreeBSD
#308Does MacOS really have that finesse they try to emulate? First thing I noticed when I started using a mac is that double clicking the Finder titlebar only expands it vertically while every other app expands both vertically and horizontally. Second thing, when I close a window and then press Cmd+tab, the icon is still there, and if I select it nothing shows up. There's more of these everyday things that work sloppy so…
It's not "sloppy" it is just a different approach. It drives me nuts on Windows that when I close FireFox the entire APPLICATION closes! I just wanted to close the window. Now when I start it again / open a new window, I have to enter my LastPass credentials. And pay the boot penalty. IMHO, a multi-window app should not exit when I close the last window. Linux Desktops and Windows both do this, macOS does not.
> IMHO, a multi-window app should not exit when I close the last window. Linux Desktops and Windows both do this, macOS does not.
On Linux' Firefox, this does not seem to be the case. I just confirmed by closing a window with a few dozen tabs, and my other windows were perfectly fine. Same goes for VS Code, IDEA, Ghidra, Tilix, etc. This might be Wayland-specific behavior, but closing one window does not appear to take the rest of the apps with it (unless they were a child process).
Re: RavynOS – Finesse of macOS, freedom of FreeBSD
#309Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I've used Mac for years, and still don't know what the yellow button does. Minimize. That’s what the yellow button does. It’s as simple as clicking it once.
Kind of unrelated to the actual discussion but I just realised that I never minimize things on mac. I know what the yellow bubble does, never once clicked it, neither used the shortcut whatever it is. Is this common? I used it on windows but for years now, I have a ton of windows on top of each other or I just cmd+w my way out of one. Maybe this is the idiomatic way and I’m not an outlier though. Is it?
I've been using Macs since 1984 and I almost never minimize a window. I find that I generally don't need to since I can maximize a window properly. In macOS the Maximize function (which you need to use option to get from the green button) makes the window the largest size that makes sense for the content and fits on the screen. On Windows, the maximize button in MDI windows makes the window essentially full-screen which I personally never want. I can have multiple maximized windows on macOS and access them all by either just clicking between them or using Cmd-`. I have no need to minimize unless a window's maximized size is essentially full-screen.
Re: RavynOS – Finesse of macOS, freedom of FreeBSD
#310Does MacOS really have that finesse they try to emulate? First thing I noticed when I started using a mac is that double clicking the Finder titlebar only expands it vertically while every other app expands both vertically and horizontally. Second thing, when I close a window and then press Cmd+tab, the icon is still there, and if I select it nothing shows up. There's more of these everyday things that work sloppy so…
Unlike Windows, there's a separation of concepts between "application" and "windows" on Mac. Closing all the windows of an app doesn't imply closing the app. I actually think the Windows way is sloppy (and I came from Windows). I want that kind of granular control. So many times back in the day, I'd accidentally close all my Internet Explorer windows, and have to pay the time-cost of reopening the app from scratch. I…
On the contrary, leaving so many apps open can make my machine feel like it's "dragging" when I really push it, mostly because I have software open that I'm not using. Especially on Macs, where memory comes at an extreme premium, I find myself frequently frustrated by the number of applications I have open. This also happens on Windows with tray-minimized apps, but to a much lesser extent.
In either case, I find both implementations sloppy. Apple's solution is complete but redundant, and Windows' solution is simple but lacking. I have to give it to KDE and GNOME, both desktops manage to 'fix' this problem by encouraging people to minimize apps they aren't using. Your (X) icon still has the magic power to kill processes, and you get to keep your precious applications when you're done using them. Boom, no need for ultra-complex Application/Window/Form/Dialog hierarchy for the user to wrap their mind around. Simple solution to a simple problem.