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Teaching Good Sex

nytimes.com

81–90 of 110 posts

Re: Teaching Good Sex

#81
post #26

It seems unwise to promote casual sex without fully understanding the consequences. And I don't speak of the overblown disease fears, but the far more serious effects of emotional desensitization. Sex elicits a chemical response much like cocaine or heroin, and is also prone to the build up of tolerance. Thus, casual sex with multiple partners leads to a severely diminished capacity for pair bonding and emotional ful…

Research tends to show that "celibacy until marriage and fidelity thereafter" tends to be more of a lie that people all agree to believe rather than the truth. Pre-marital shenanigans and extra-marital affairs are extremely common, the latter especially among higher-status men, who in many other cultures are openly polygamous. There are a number of things that are cultural universals. Every culture has music, or ritu…

I wouldn't call it "a lie that people agree to believe," I'd call it an ideal that people may or may not live up to. All cultures have ideals, and they have a strong impact on the direction of a society even if people don't live up to them 100%. It's not hard to see the positive impact of monogamistic ideals when it comes to things like family formation, which is one of the cornerstones of society as we know it.

Social norms aren't arbitrary, even if they aren't human universals -- you'll notice that matriarchal, low-paternal investment cultures never seem to get off the ground. All of the most successful cultures have broad similarities in regards to their attitudes towards sex, even if there are some differences. Such is the extent of the impact of sexual culture on the structure of the larger society.

In less affluent times, when people's lives depended on it, it was obvious that family formation was more important than recreational sex. Even today, with the importance of the family being somewhat masked by the expanded presence of larger-scale institutions like the state, it remains a crucial element of a truly healthy society.

Human beings are adaptable, and in modern times we can probably afford a more permissive sexual culture. Nevertheless, I think we'd be profoundly better off if people were more aware of the value of sexual restraint. Hedonism should not be our only guiding principle.

Re: Teaching Good Sex

#82
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am sorry for what you had to go through, I can relate in a way. I will recommend the same I recommended to winter_blue: consider (behavior) therapy and work through whatever pain and/or toxic shame might be left in you from the past. And on gold-digging women: they should be sufficiently easy to spot and just decide whether the sleeping-with-you and her presence is worth it to you or not. There are also great girls…

And on gold-digging women: they should be sufficiently easy to spot... I don't think so. In general, women are masters of deception (by male geek standards) and you shouldn't expect to beat them at their own game. In my experience, the only reliable way to spot a golddigger is to reveal that you are broke and have no desire to change this.

Oh heavens no, I don't even aspire to match half of the social and manipulative skills women seem to be so born with. One thing I think I have figured out is weighing actions vs. words. And the real gold-diggers usually reveal themselves rather quickly because it is only efficient for them to get things to "being paid" mode as soon as possible. But it will take (lots of) reflective thinking to see it for what it is, that is true.

Re: Teaching Good Sex

#83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Research tends to show that "celibacy until marriage and fidelity thereafter" tends to be more of a lie that people all agree to believe rather than the truth. Pre-marital shenanigans and extra-marital affairs are extremely common, the latter especially among higher-status men, who in many other cultures are openly polygamous. There are a number of things that are cultural universals. Every culture has music, or ritu…

I wouldn't call it "a lie that people agree to believe," I'd call it an ideal that people may or may not live up to. All cultures have ideals, and they have a strong impact on the direction of a society even if people don't live up to them 100%. It's not hard to see the positive impact of monogamistic ideals when it comes to things like family formation, which is one of the cornerstones of society as we know it. Soci…

[deleted]

Re: Teaching Good Sex

#84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Research tends to show that "celibacy until marriage and fidelity thereafter" tends to be more of a lie that people all agree to believe rather than the truth. Pre-marital shenanigans and extra-marital affairs are extremely common, the latter especially among higher-status men, who in many other cultures are openly polygamous. There are a number of things that are cultural universals. Every culture has music, or ritu…

I wouldn't call it "a lie that people agree to believe," I'd call it an ideal that people may or may not live up to. All cultures have ideals, and they have a strong impact on the direction of a society even if people don't live up to them 100%. It's not hard to see the positive impact of monogamistic ideals when it comes to things like family formation, which is one of the cornerstones of society as we know it. Soci…

[deleted]

Re: Teaching Good Sex

#85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Research tends to show that "celibacy until marriage and fidelity thereafter" tends to be more of a lie that people all agree to believe rather than the truth. Pre-marital shenanigans and extra-marital affairs are extremely common, the latter especially among higher-status men, who in many other cultures are openly polygamous. There are a number of things that are cultural universals. Every culture has music, or ritu…

I wouldn't call it "a lie that people agree to believe," I'd call it an ideal that people may or may not live up to. All cultures have ideals, and they have a strong impact on the direction of a society even if people don't live up to them 100%. It's not hard to see the positive impact of monogamistic ideals when it comes to things like family formation, which is one of the cornerstones of society as we know it. Soci…

These social norms were formed when people didn't have the wealth or the technology for effective birth control. Once that happened, the sexual revolution happened. Cultures are self-modifying based upon changing conditions.

Re: Teaching Good Sex

#86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't call it "a lie that people agree to believe," I'd call it an ideal that people may or may not live up to. All cultures have ideals, and they have a strong impact on the direction of a society even if people don't live up to them 100%. It's not hard to see the positive impact of monogamistic ideals when it comes to things like family formation, which is one of the cornerstones of society as we know it. Soci…

These social norms were formed when people didn't have the wealth or the technology for effective birth control. Once that happened, the sexual revolution happened. Cultures are self-modifying based upon changing conditions.

>Cultures are self-modifying based upon changing conditions.

Yes, and like biological evolution, cultural evolution has no foresight. Birth control may have facilitated these cultural changes by removing the most obvious downside to promiscuous sex, but this has next to nothing to do with my argument. The point is that such radical changes in a culture can have unforeseen consequences for our psychology and society.

I don't pretend to know what the "ideal" sexual culture for our time would be, but people should be more critical of the all-accepting, hyper-individualistic direction we seem to be going in.

Re: Teaching Good Sex

#87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These social norms were formed when people didn't have the wealth or the technology for effective birth control. Once that happened, the sexual revolution happened. Cultures are self-modifying based upon changing conditions.

>Cultures are self-modifying based upon changing conditions. Yes, and like biological evolution, cultural evolution has no foresight. Birth control may have facilitated these cultural changes by removing the most obvious downside to promiscuous sex, but this has next to nothing to do with my argument. The point is that such radical changes in a culture can have unforeseen consequences for our psychology and society.…

> The point is that such radical changes in a culture can have unforeseen consequences for our psychology and society.

The old order had unseen consequences for our psychology and society too. The strong taboo against divorce enabled a lot of domestic violence and unhappy marriages, gays faced a lot of serious problems, and infidelity was rampant. Sexual repression itself has psychological consequences. We're still seeing the knock-on effects of this today.

You're making a cultural evolution argument as well, and my counterargument is that cultural evolution doesn't capture everything that we want to have in our society. Societies can function with the repression of women and minorities, with domestic violence, with marital infidelity. But all things considered, wouldn't we rather live in a society that functioned without those things, and with more satisfying sex to boot?

Furthermore, with the modern state of technology, the old order is probably unworkable anyway, even from the standpoint of cultural evolution. The old order was patriarchial and oppressive to women. It was always wrong, but in a time when women didn't work outside the home it was at least sustainable. In our modern economy that's no longer the case.

Re: Teaching Good Sex

#88
post #59
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some soap: Everything you've seen or read about sex is false. It is an (growing) experience between the ones who have sex which can not be learned from a book or video.

I'm sure it doesn't apply to you but that sounds like it was written by someone who never really had sex all that often. "The Joy of Sex" became so popular (in an era in which sex was widely seen as a leisure pursuit and before the scares over HIV) because many people actually did need to be told what to do. It concentrated on the emotional as well as the physical aspects. Poor analogy time: owning a car does not mak…

[deleted]

Re: Teaching Good Sex

#89
post #36
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

why did you link that? now i have to wash my brain out with soap.

Some soap: Everything you've seen or read about sex is false. It is an (growing) experience between the ones who have sex which can not be learned from a book or video.

It's less the (awful) content and more who it comes from.

Re: Teaching Good Sex

#90
post #36
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

why did you link that? now i have to wash my brain out with soap.

Some soap: Everything you've seen or read about sex is false. It is an (growing) experience between the ones who have sex which can not be learned from a book or video.

It's less the (awful) content and more who it comes from. Dude looks like walking probable cause.
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