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Why I left Pine64

blog.brixit.nl

121–130 of 227 posts

Re: Why I left Pine64

#121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should they pick something? I thought the whole point of this was to build open hardware and let me pick something? If you want a manufacturer to decide for you what you should run on your phone, maybe just buy a Samsung or apple device. They've already got it figured out also.

PINE64 hardware is not open hardware and it has never been marketed as such.

Open in the sense of letting the user run whatever they want, not open-sourcing the hardware itself.

Re: Why I left Pine64

#122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Part of the success of the Raspberry Pi is that you can load whatever OS on it you want. Imagine if you could ONLY run Raspberry Pi OS! That’s not the issue with the Pine64 ecosystem, though. The direction they’ve chosen is actually similar to what Raspberry Pi has chosen: You can boot alternate OSes, but the primary focus is Raspberry Pi foundations own needs and everything else comes secondary. This is what it ta…

> The direction they’ve chosen is actually similar to what Raspberry Pi has chosen: You can boot alternate OSes, but the primary focus is Raspberry Pi foundations own needs and everything else comes secondary. If I put a SD card with ex. Alpine Linux into a pi, it'll boot into Alpine Linux. If I put a SD card with Alpine Linux into a Pinebook Pro, it'll boot into... Manjaro.

I don't think the Raspberry Pi does UEFI boot by default? You'd have to put in a SD card with Raspberry Pi-specific boot support, including proprietary blobs.

Re: Why I left Pine64

#123
Given their niche business model, Pine64 is probably barely staying alive, especially in the age of COVID-19 and recession. I do hope they are able to offer open source range of devices, even with limitations. Stepping back from emotions, MicroSD booting is usually quite useless, tried that quite a bit on Chromebooks and everything keeps hanging waiting for I/O. Given limited resources, maybe they are hard pressed to just make what they ship with device not suck badly?

Re: Why I left Pine64

#124
> And in my role for the postmarketOS distribution, I developed the camera stack.

So now i know whom to blame for the fact that the camera app crashes 90% of the times before I manage to take a photo.

Re: Why I left Pine64

#125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The direction they’ve chosen is actually similar to what Raspberry Pi has chosen: You can boot alternate OSes, but the primary focus is Raspberry Pi foundations own needs and everything else comes secondary. If I put a SD card with ex. Alpine Linux into a pi, it'll boot into Alpine Linux. If I put a SD card with Alpine Linux into a Pinebook Pro, it'll boot into... Manjaro.

I don't think the Raspberry Pi does UEFI boot by default? You'd have to put in a SD card with Raspberry Pi-specific boot support, including proprietary blobs.

Yes, that's true; my point is that the pi will happily boot whatever, unlike the Pinebook Pro which has a default bootloader on internal storage that ignores the SD card. So a distro/OS has to add the pi-specific bootloader to their SD image, and that's a pain, but they can't do anything to make the PBP work, because the machine won't even pay attention to their SD image.

EDIT: Actually I guess the Pi 4 added an onboard flash chip with an early bootloader, but I can't figure out if it impacts the boot order or changes how hard SD boot is: https://www.raspberrypi.com/documentation/computers/raspberr...

Re: Why I left Pine64

#126
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you’re trying to make a mass-market hardware product at bare-bones pricing, you have to be ruthless about simplifying the hardware and cutting costs. A single SPI chip isn’t a huge investment in absolute terms, but it adds one more sourcing complication (in the middle of a chip shortage) and creates significantly more RMA complexity (for the reasons that the Pine64 organization accurately explained from their pa…

> When you’re trying to make a mass-market hardware product at bare-bones pricing, you have to be ruthless about simplifying the hardware and cutting costs. But is that really what PINE64 should be trying to do? So far their support hasn't come from the "mass market". It's come from a niche market of open source hackers trying to build and support various Linux distros for mobile devices. Why does improving mass mark…

You come up on your niche, and then when you have access to the broader market, you pivot to the group that will help you grow market power [1]. Similar dynamics exist in a lot of different ecosystems, and Pine seems to be responding to the challenges that have come with becoming big. It's sad that they won't be supporting OS hackers anymore, but they have to pivot if they want to bring onboard more customers (which seems to be the goal behind this decision).

[1] https://www.cgpgrey.com/blog/rules-for-rulers

Re: Why I left Pine64

#127
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

wow... I hadn't seen that before but the PinePower looks absolutely incredible

Having one, I don't feel as good about the PinePower. I bought it together with their Pinecil soldering iron (which is great!) as it seemed like the ideal way to provide power to it, but unfortunately it's a very unreliable combo, with the iron rebooting frequently. Discussion around many similar issue reports online suggests the possibility of bad implementations of USB PD. Perhaps this is more a criticism of the co…

Which PinePower model are you using? In my experience, the Pinecil works flawlessly with the 65W PinePower and the recommended heat-resistant red silicone USB-C cable.

Re: Why I left Pine64

#128
post #19

Unless PINE64 changes course hard, I think this will be the moment they died, so to say. They may keep making SBCs etc alongside other vendors but the phones/tablets/laptops/watches/etc would continue being novelties and realistically majority e-waste. Really quite sad. If I'd name one single person in the FLOSS community who's done the most good for mobile open source, it'd be OP. Thank you so much for your service,…

I bought a PineBook Pro and was pretty excited about it. Unfortunately I just couldn't get it to boot reliably. I was ready to do a lot of fiddling with it, accept the slow overall speed, but just fighting with the boot system all the time was not fun. Haven't touched it in months.

Re: Why I left Pine64

#129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It depends on what you were expecting. On their A64 Kickstarter they said the graphics capabilities are higher than the original XBox's level of performance. That might lead a person to expect it to play games well. The screenshot included a Netflix icon. The Kickstarter FAQ says it can play UHD 4K video. That might lead you to believe you could watch Netflix on it. As I understand it, the phone is based on the A64 b…

It can play 4k videos and it can play games, but expecting it to play 4k videos through an unoptimized browser with DRM and play virtualized games is extremely disingenuous.

Are your feet sore from moving the goalposts that far?

Re: Why I left Pine64

#130
The idea that Pine64 would go with Manjaro of all possible projects is utterly hilarious.

Essentially everyone I know thinks of it as being Arch in a gimp suit. Some sort of rlysmart teenager's pet project rather than an actually serious tool for a million different reasons that most people can't even be bothered to get into.

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