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Why I left Pine64

blog.brixit.nl

101–110 of 227 posts

Re: Why I left Pine64

#101

Some more information about Manjaro: https://manjarno.snorlax.sh/ Sad to see Pine64 only listening to them.

> Garuda, which aims to have a Manjaro-like experience without holding back packages and the problems Manjaro has.

The rest of the point aside, is the author is this harsh on Manjaro I must assume they actually aren't that familiar with Garuda. They're a jolly bunch and it looks great but the quality is severely lacking. It can be fun to play around with in a VM for inspiration and snag some snippets to your dotfiles but I wouldn't recommend it for anything mission-critical.

It's a cool experiment to push btrfs as the only root filesystem option but that's also something that's not for everyone.

Re: Why I left Pine64

#102

While I’m sad to see the author leave such a project and grateful for his contributions, I have to say I think Pine64 is actually in the right here. One of the biggest challenges in running an open source hardware project like this is catering to two very different audiences: The majority of your customers (99.9% or more) just want the hardware to get up and running quickly so they can get to their specific need or a…

While I can agree that if you want to make a device with mass appeal you probably should focus your efforts, this doesn't seem to be happening. As far as I can tell Pine does not put any significant effort into the software, but instead hopes that the community will do it. Now if you rely on the community, focusing only on a minority (manjaro users) of a minority (Linux mobile developers) of a minority (phone users wanting a Linux phone) might be a bit too much focus I'd argue.

Re: Why I left Pine64

#103
post #97

I am a big FOSS proponent (I almost exclusively use FOSS), but I find it difficult to not become disillusioned recently. It seems the large corporations like FANGs are largely pushing OSS to use volunteer work to make software a commodity, while trying to accumulate more and more data, which they consider their main value. At the same time we have companies like pine, who seem to support FOSS through relatively open…

Your last link is 404ing

Weird it's working for me.

Re: Why I left Pine64

#105

I am a big FOSS proponent (I almost exclusively use FOSS), but I find it difficult to not become disillusioned recently. It seems the large corporations like FANGs are largely pushing OSS to use volunteer work to make software a commodity, while trying to accumulate more and more data, which they consider their main value. At the same time we have companies like pine, who seem to support FOSS through relatively open…

The funny thing about manjaro is it would be abandoned in months if arch devs (for whatever reason) just disappeared. I suspect that Canonical could survive such a thing with debian, but manjaro could not.

Re: Why I left Pine64

#106
post #97

I am a big FOSS proponent (I almost exclusively use FOSS), but I find it difficult to not become disillusioned recently. It seems the large corporations like FANGs are largely pushing OSS to use volunteer work to make software a commodity, while trying to accumulate more and more data, which they consider their main value. At the same time we have companies like pine, who seem to support FOSS through relatively open…

Your last link is 404ing

Something wrong with your browser or internet connection, it works for me.

Re: Why I left Pine64

#107
post #50

At best, the Pinephone is buggy software on low priced but mediocre hardware. It has always been like this, and it is not going to change. There is nobody willing to spend the millions of dollars it would take to make it otherwise. Meanwhile, AOSP is fully working, open source Linux-based phone software that runs on lots of modern hardware from a variety of manufacturers. Distributions like GrapheneOS have put huge e…

Try changing the default DNS in AOSP from 8.8.8.8 without doing ill advised, hacky weird nonsense. Have you tried to prevent your AOSP phone from reporting tethering to your carrier in the last ~6 years? The software is licensed GPL, which means you own it outright as a user, to it's core, right? So these types of things should be possible with ease with a little technical proficiency, right?

Android, including AOSP, is not an operating system, because it doesn't enable the user to operate the device. It is a kiosk, because it enables the licensee to use the device, and limits utility to OEM, carrier and Google market requirements and business cases.

Re: Why I left Pine64

#108

On one hand, I understand your frustration here, for sure. But on the other hand, Pine devices have severely lacked for being able to tell users what the best place to start is. I've wanted to back to my PinePhone a few times and had to ask, like, what is in the best state to use, and nobody could tell me. Updating my PineBook Pro took a ton of investigating because the simple explanation of how to get from what mine…

Why should they pick something? I thought the whole point of this was to build open hardware and let me pick something?

If you want a manufacturer to decide for you what you should run on your phone, maybe just buy a Samsung or apple device. They've already got it figured out also.

Re: Why I left Pine64

#109

I am a big FOSS proponent (I almost exclusively use FOSS), but I find it difficult to not become disillusioned recently. It seems the large corporations like FANGs are largely pushing OSS to use volunteer work to make software a commodity, while trying to accumulate more and more data, which they consider their main value. At the same time we have companies like pine, who seem to support FOSS through relatively open…

I feel like you're inferring qualities in OSS that don't (explicitly) exist. This is not uncommon. Specifically; >> It seems the large corporations like FANGs are largely pushing OSS to use volunteer work to make software a commodity Why would you expect them to do anything different? Companies are driven by profit, not some sense of morality. OSS licenses allow them, even encourage them, to trade volunteer (aka free…

> I feel like you're inferring qualities in OSS that don't (explicitly) exist. This is not uncommon. Specifically;

> >> It seems the large corporations like FANGs are largely pushing OSS to use volunteer work to make software a commodity

> Why would you expect them to do anything different? Companies are driven by profit, not some sense of morality. OSS licenses allow them, even encourage them, to trade volunteer (aka free) labor in return for source code availability.

Apart from the fact that companies and corporations can act ethically despite driven by profits, I did not say I'm desillusioned with the corporations, but the FOSS community. Essentially it is us as users&developers who let this happen.

> >> which to me seem increasingly more about a way to make a profit of the FOSS trend by using volunteer work without any investment from their end.

> There's often serious investment from their end, but that's irrelevant. They absolutely want to leverage FOSS to make a profit. And that's explicitly allowed by OSS licenses.

Again I don't say that companies shouldn't make a profit, but when OSS started to become more mainstream many (including myself) believed that it would be a way to break the stranglehold of large monopolistic corporations on the software world and create an ecosystem of relatively small software companies that would customise OSS software for specific needs on a relatively even playing field. Instead what happened is that OSS might have accelerated the concentration of the software world, by making small jobs essentially unviable.

Regarding investment, I expect that FANGs still very much come out on top, just imagine what they had to pay in licencing cost for their datacentres if no oss operating systems existed. Also much of these investments are towards use cases with very little benefit for normal users.

> To put it another way, your disillusionment is because of a "bug" on your end, not on theirs. They are behaving exactly as OSS is designed. Your _expectation_ of their behavior is inaccurate, and so does not match reality. Not surpisingly this makes you sad :(

I think you misunderstand me, my disillusionment is with the idea what FOSS could have achieved (and people imagined) but didn't. I sometimes wonder if FOSS has made the world a better place, like many hoped it would. You might not care about it but I do.

Re: Why I left Pine64

#110
It's really unfortunate. I remember being excited about the pinephone. I had no idea this was happening behind the scenes.

Why elevate Manjaro if others were doing the work? Why was that decision made? It doesn't make any sense to me.

Thanks for all the work you've done!

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