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Housing is at the root of many of the rich world’s problems (2020)

economist.com

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Re: Housing is at the root of many of the rich world’s problems (2020)

#151

Post by kindatrue »

I just think about this letter to the Atherton (median sold home price: $7.6M) Mayor and City Council:

===

Subject line: IMMENSELY AGAINST multifamily development!

    I am writing this letter to communicate our IMMENSE objection to the creation of multifamily overlay zones in Atherton … Please IMMEDIATELY REMOVE all multifamily overlay zoning projects from the Housing Element which will be submitted to the state in July. They will MASSIVELY decrease our home values, the quality of life of ourselves and our neighbors and IMMENSELY increase the noise pollution and traffic.
Laura Arrillaga-Andreessen and Marc Andreessen

4 Properties on

===

Everyone economic freedom and deregulation, until it means more people living near them.

(From https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/08/marc-andre...)

Re: Housing is at the root of many of the rich world’s problems (2020)

#152

Post by wldcordeiro »

pochekailov wrote: post #14

Nothing will change while the homeowners have more political power than the renters. Even in the cities where the renter population is bigger than the homeowners, such as in Seattle, half of the votes come from people of > 65 years old (all of whom are homeowners, likely more than one home). Young people simply won't vote at all. There is very little incentives for the young people to vote. Even if you cancel all the…

One thing that's missed in the renter vs homeowner thing is that the rules of election systems favors the homeowner too. Renters move more and will need to register to vote over again and the added inconvenience will stop plenty from even bothering.

Re: Housing is at the root of many of the rich world’s problems (2020)

#153

Post by Kon-Peki »

TuringNYC wrote: post #110
nradov wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of the laws regarding property taxes are set at the state level, not the municipal level. In California, a voter in Modesto can influence tax rates in San Francisco. Local votes only control minor things like special additional school district assessments.

That may be how things work in California, but it definitely does not work like that everywhere in the US. For example, here in NJ, property taxes are partly set by the state, but the schools portion is set my the county and township.

Yeah, here in IL property tax is 100% local (state law sets limits and requirements only). And everything is an independent government body with taxing authority.

The city collects its taxes, the school district collects its taxes, the library collects its taxes, fire district, road department, forest preserve, etc. None of them can tell the other to do anything - they are all independent with independent funding. The county has its own taxes, but also has the function of actually providing the payment, billing and distribution services. So you only have to make a single payment.

By the way, property taxes in Florida work nearly the same as California and they don't have any problem building lots of housing.

Re: Housing is at the root of many of the rich world’s problems (2020)

#154

Post by datacruncher01 »

axg11 wrote: post #141
datacruncher01 wrote: post #132

It's a simple problem, we turned housing into an investment. Now everyone who owns a home is incentivized to ensure their investment is maximized and that results in a lot of NIMBYism. The simple solution is we need more housing in cities and suburbs. How we get there is an exercise that's taken on by local housing authorities and they are not incentivized to solve the problem. That's because they work for voters who…

When was housing not an investment? Throughout history, people have always wanted to drive up the value of their land and properties. There are still plenty of places in the US/Canada/UK where housing is cheap. The problem is that nobody wants to live in those areas.

It's true but the reason people are moving to cities are jobs. Rural locations do not have the job market to support the costs to live there. It's a lower cost, but a much, much lower income outlook as well.

If you have the money to outright buy a rural property and build a house there, it's not a bad place to live. But you don't want to have to depend on the limited job market with an expensive mortgage and limited buyer pool.

Re: Housing is at the root of many of the rich world’s problems (2020)

#155

Post by davidf18 »

Cederfjard wrote: post #149
axg11 wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When was housing not an investment? Throughout history, people have always wanted to drive up the value of their land and properties. There are still plenty of places in the US/Canada/UK where housing is cheap. The problem is that nobody wants to live in those areas.

So do you have a solution in mind?

No post body was provided.

Re: Housing is at the root of many of the rich world’s problems (2020)

#156

Post by seydor »

> Happily, they are at last starting to recognise the damage caused by these policies.

No, nothing changed, if anything it got worst post covid. The only countries that can do something are singapore and china, who are rationally treating housing as a basic need similar to food. In the western world things will probably never change on that front. The boomers built houses because they knew they d be appreciating forever - and they did, beyond their wildest dreams, while the economists were cheering. Millenials and GenZ will not touch housing because it's not an opportunity, and the barrier to entry is too high. Instead of housing bubbles, GenZ creates meme stock and crypto bubbles, and whatever comes next with the metaverse. Housing is very broken in europe, germans are building houses in the south where it's still cheap for their retirement. The housing stock will keep consolidating to fewer and fewer people, while the middle class will be using remote work for location arbitrage.

Re: Housing is at the root of many of the rich world’s problems (2020)

#157

Post by api »

ryukafalz wrote: post #133
api wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only rational move is for aspiring owners to leave SF, and not for another crazy expansive city. There is a gigantic country and world out there.

I would say a non-exclusionary city would work just as well. Tokyo is the most expansive city I can think of and they've managed to keep prices down. Still, fighting to make US cities more livable is a laudable goal.

It's a laudable goal but I have serious doubts about its achievability in cities that are already overpriced. Every single incentive leans in the direction of keeping prices high since not only would lower prices cost homeowners money but would also possibly cut into tax revenues and could financial ruin people who purchased under these high price regimes.

It's a bit of a ratchet. Once the prices go high, it's very hard to turn back. The only way out is probably to inflate the currency until a loaf of bread is $15 but housing is reasonable again, or for the state or federal government to offer some kind of huge tax write-off for depreciating home values. The latter is unlikely given the financial crunch faced by governments.

Re: Housing is at the root of many of the rich world’s problems (2020)

#158

Post by ch4s3 »

datacruncher01 wrote: post #154
axg11 wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When was housing not an investment? Throughout history, people have always wanted to drive up the value of their land and properties. There are still plenty of places in the US/Canada/UK where housing is cheap. The problem is that nobody wants to live in those areas.

It's true but the reason people are moving to cities are jobs. Rural locations do not have the job market to support the costs to live there. It's a lower cost, but a much, much lower income outlook as well. If you have the money to outright buy a rural property and build a house there, it's not a bad place to live. But you don't want to have to depend on the limited job market with an expensive mortgage and limited…

> If you have the money to outright buy a rural property and build a house there

That's if there are available builders. It took my mother the better part of a year to get her roof replaced, because there was no one available to do the job. I'd also argue that the place she lives in rural VA is pretty awful in most respects other than having space and she's not all that far from a town.

Re: Housing is at the root of many of the rich world’s problems (2020)

#159

Post by davidf18 »

kindatrue wrote: post #151

I just think about this letter to the Atherton (median sold home price: $7.6M) Mayor and City Council: === Subject line: IMMENSELY AGAINST multifamily development! I am writing this letter to communicate our IMMENSE objection to the creation of multifamily overlay zones in Atherton … Please IMMEDIATELY REMOVE all multifamily overlay zoning projects from the Housing Element which will be submitted to the state in July…

No post body was provided.

Re: Housing is at the root of many of the rich world’s problems (2020)

#160

Post by seydor »

infl8ed wrote: post #21
pochekailov wrote: post #14

Nothing will change while the homeowners have more political power than the renters. Even in the cities where the renter population is bigger than the homeowners, such as in Seattle, half of the votes come from people of > 65 years old (all of whom are homeowners, likely more than one home). Young people simply won't vote at all. There is very little incentives for the young people to vote. Even if you cancel all the…

Although I don't disagree with you, I will just mention that housing affordability is also a problem in Australia where voting is mandatory

I often watch architecture videos with houses from australia. Lots of properties built more or less to look like contemporary style stock photography. No wonder your houses are expensive, they are built for luxury investment
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