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Housing is at the root of many of the rich world’s problems (2020)

economist.com

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Re: Housing is at the root of many of the rich world’s problems (2020)

#131

Post by TuringNYC »

seper8 wrote: post #9
mschuster91 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not housing per-se, but concentrating too many jobs in few locations. Jobs weren't "concentrated" per se by any form of planning or centralized action, employers simply shifted to urban centers because the amount of skilled workers and other necessities (such as high speed Internet, universities, road and rail infrastructure) was vastly higher there than in dilapidated flyover-state villages. Additionally, rural ar…

I read this kind of thinking a lot lately, people trying very hard to come up with solutions that don't address the main issue. Just guessing, you already own a house? The fix is to enable builders to build enough housing, and not just single family detached housing, by removing regulations which allow NIMBY-ism. At the same time, prevent investors from hoarding houses and jacking up the prices. I find it similar to…

>> The fix is to enable builders to build enough housing, and not just single family detached housing, by removing regulations which allow NIMBY-ism.

I remember when Mayor DeBlasio (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_de_Blasio) was running for Mayor in NYC. He was hugely against high-rise high-density condos in Brooklyn adjacent (4th Ave) to expensive $2M+ brownstones (incidentally where he lived, in Park Slope!)

He was the "left" candidate and didnt seem to understand the concept of supply and demand. Nor the concept that no every city dweller can afford a $2M brownstone.

The problem is that Left and Right alike wants to perpetuate the system because they are all so fully bought into the system. I'm sure Mayor DeBlasio fully understood the economics here, but supported NIMBYism because he and his money base wants to keep their wealth.

That also means this isnt a left or right issue, its more of a hopeless issue. The only way out is to buy into the system and join them.

Re: Housing is at the root of many of the rich world’s problems (2020)

#132

Post by datacruncher01 »

It's a simple problem, we turned housing into an investment. Now everyone who owns a home is incentivized to ensure their investment is maximized and that results in a lot of NIMBYism. The simple solution is we need more housing in cities and suburbs. How we get there is an exercise that's taken on by local housing authorities and they are not incentivized to solve the problem. That's because they work for voters who are currently living in the area opposed to future people who aren't contributing to the vote.

States are going to have to step in and override cities that aren't being effective, this cannot be solved from the federal level. They are going to have to say, these permitting processes are too restrictive, homeowners can add backyard units or convert their homes to duplexes/etc, and make it easy for apartment builders to buy a few homes to make small apartment complexes even if the neighborhood hates it or the city has been stalling on that kind of development.

Re: Housing is at the root of many of the rich world’s problems (2020)

#133

Post by ryukafalz »

api wrote: post #59
pochekailov wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The longer I live the more I am finding the universe is working on extremely simple few principles; their relations create complexity. Aspiring homeowners will never become homeowners if the price is exclusionary. Take SF: with average salary of 75-79K, the apartment cost starts from 1.1M. Only 8% has salary > than 100K, that makes the remaining 92% the "aspiring" homeowners. They will stay "aspiring" for the rest of…

The only rational move is for aspiring owners to leave SF, and not for another crazy expansive city. There is a gigantic country and world out there.

I would say a non-exclusionary city would work just as well. Tokyo is the most expansive city I can think of and they've managed to keep prices down.

Still, fighting to make US cities more livable is a laudable goal.

Re: Housing is at the root of many of the rich world’s problems (2020)

#134

Post by sudosysgen »

idkyall wrote: post #122

Housing in the US has gotten to where it is due to horrible laws effectively allowing total tax avoidance for landlords. Take some investment property. You buy it at some basis price, let's say 500k. You rent it out for 15k a year. Each year you can offset your rental income against deprecation of the property and property taxes - meaning, you pay no income tax on your rental income. ~30 years later, you've deprecate…

That's horrific. From a quick back of the envelope calculation that's hundreds of billions of unrealized taxes.

Re: Housing is at the root of many of the rich world’s problems (2020)

#135

Post by [deleted] »

fallingfrog wrote: post #98

Increasing real estate values are directly related to increasing poverty and homelessness. The reason is pretty simple- when housing prices go up, rents go up. When rents go up, people have trouble affording them. They deplete their savings and are at risk of becoming homeless. That's why you get million dollar homes with people sleeping on the sidewalk outside. Normally, there would be a negative feedback mechanism…

[deleted]

Re: Housing is at the root of many of the rich world’s problems (2020)

#136

Post by marto1 »

pochekailov wrote: post #14

Nothing will change while the homeowners have more political power than the renters. Even in the cities where the renter population is bigger than the homeowners, such as in Seattle, half of the votes come from people of > 65 years old (all of whom are homeowners, likely more than one home). Young people simply won't vote at all. There is very little incentives for the young people to vote. Even if you cancel all the…

All this is true, but you missed a crucial piece, addressing your "need to engage" - political energy capacity coming from the young. I'll be more than glad to be proven wrong, but I don't think young people have driven any sort of political change in the west for at least the last 20 years. There are many cases where they get used as a lever, but actual movements like "occupy wallstreet" got squashed fairly fast.

Re: Housing is at the root of many of the rich world’s problems (2020)

#137

Post by jraby3 »

idkyall wrote: post #122

Housing in the US has gotten to where it is due to horrible laws effectively allowing total tax avoidance for landlords. Take some investment property. You buy it at some basis price, let's say 500k. You rent it out for 15k a year. Each year you can offset your rental income against deprecation of the property and property taxes - meaning, you pay no income tax on your rental income. ~30 years later, you've deprecate…

It’s even worse. Take a look at the cost segregation rules.

Re: Housing is at the root of many of the rich world’s problems (2020)

#138

Post by sudosysgen »

datacruncher01 wrote: post #132

It's a simple problem, we turned housing into an investment. Now everyone who owns a home is incentivized to ensure their investment is maximized and that results in a lot of NIMBYism. The simple solution is we need more housing in cities and suburbs. How we get there is an exercise that's taken on by local housing authorities and they are not incentivized to solve the problem. That's because they work for voters who…

This can probably be solved at the federal level using smart taxation and incentives for mixed zoning.

Re: Housing is at the root of many of the rich world’s problems (2020)

#139

Post by rhacker »

pochekailov wrote: post #14

Nothing will change while the homeowners have more political power than the renters. Even in the cities where the renter population is bigger than the homeowners, such as in Seattle, half of the votes come from people of > 65 years old (all of whom are homeowners, likely more than one home). Young people simply won't vote at all. There is very little incentives for the young people to vote. Even if you cancel all the…

Let's multiply Seattle housing count by 3. I'm sure you'll still be able to get from point a to point b in a day (if you survive the drive).

Re: Housing is at the root of many of the rich world’s problems (2020)

#140

Post by Spivak »

doliveira wrote: post #95
alistairSH wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure why you're being downvoted. Whether it's intentional or not, voting in the US is not always easy for several reasons... 1 - No national election day holiday, so wage-earners often have to forgo income to vote. 2 - Long lines, too few voting stations, exacerbate point 1 3 - Inconsistent voting laws as you cross municipal boundaries (mostly state to state). 3b - particularly WRT mail-in/absentee ballots. 4 - c…

Election day not being a holiday in the USA is weird

Not being able to vote electronically is also really weird since ballots are only paper at the edge. Yes there are downsides, just like when you mail-in you give up non-repudiation, but the fact that it's not even an option is crazy. I personally would be more than happy to give up my personal ability to vote anonymously if I meant I could just sign up for a vote.gov account at the BMV, login, vote and be done with it.
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