Live data from Hacker News

Why American cities are broke (2021) [video]

youtube.com

21–30 of 208 posts

Re: Why American cities are broke (2021) [video]

#21

Can someone name an example of a city that has gone bankrupt due to infrastructure costs that didn't also lose a large amount of its population or lose key local industries?

New York City came 1-day close to declaring bankruptcy on 16 October 1975.

https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/the-night-new-york-...

Re: Why American cities are broke (2021) [video]

#22
post #9
post #7

Ponzi Scheme: a form of fraud in which belief in the success of a nonexistent enterprise is fostered by the payment of quick returns to the first investors from money invested by later investors.

We need a word that is not intentionally a fraud but is pretty much an example of an unsustainable pyramid.

"Capitalism"

(in its modern, dependent-on-continuous-growth interpretation)

Re: Why American cities are broke (2021) [video]

#23

Can someone name an example of a city that has gone bankrupt due to infrastructure costs that didn't also lose a large amount of its population or lose key local industries?

This is made complicated because before cities go bankrupt they try to stay alive in ways that cause people and industry to leave (such as reducing school funding, reducing road maintenance, raising taxes, etc). As such, by the time the city goes bankrupt there will be other things to point to, but the underlying failure was that the city ran out of money and was trying to work around that.

Re: Why American cities are broke (2021) [video]

#24
post #2

Found the text version more compelling myself: https://www.strongtowns.org/the-growth-ponzi-scheme

Thanks; the "Why", or the interesting part of "Why", seems only alluded to, rather than explicitly discussed. Is it that the low density of suburban development means that tax collected per area unit, is less than infrastructure maintenance per area unit? And is the even more implied solution to increase urban density at least to the point where revenue per area matches expenses per area?

Re: Why American cities are broke (2021) [video]

#25
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We need a word that is not intentionally a fraud but is pretty much an example of an unsustainable pyramid.

Fractional reserve banking

Not a ponzi scheme. It doesn't rely on growth to survive.

Re: Why American cities are broke (2021) [video]

#26

The US system means you can live outside cities (and so avoid paying city taxes) and travel in to enjoy the amenities they provide. The result is a classic "failure of the commons" where contributors move out and people in need move in. The growth fallacy relies on cities already being short of cash, it is a symptom, not a disease.

Suburbs pay city taxes but are basically subsidized owing to the infrastructure cost relative to tax rate. You can hardly chalk the problem to too few people living within the city boundaries, but ultimately for super-long commuters what it would mean is the bulk of shouldering the cost of those people falls on the communities outside the city. People go in to work, that means the amenities used are a) the roads whic…

Suburbs are not the only place that can’t fund their street maintenance. My city of Berkeley, California, only spends a fraction of what would be required and we have the worst pavement quality in the state. What’s needed is a frontage tax: $10/foot/year on each parcel ($400/year for typical parcel size and shape). That would fix the streets in perpetuity. It’s politically impossible though since people who live in single-family detached homes, who are massively subsidized by apartment dwellers, don’t want to lose that subsidy.

Re: Why American cities are broke (2021) [video]

#27

I am biased because I quite like living in the suburbs, and get quite suspicious when some manifesto comes up that dictates I should feel bad for it. Why is the solution to live in better designed cities instead of better designed suburbs? Are cities still necessary given the modern conditions?

The argument is that suburbs are incapable of affording the infrastructure required for their own existence. These costs are either subsidized or require persistent (perhaps unrealistic) growth to cover without dramatically increasing suburban taxes.

"Are cities necessary given the modern conditions?"

How many suburbs would exist without the corresponding city center? And, don't we just call suburbs without a city center, you know, towns?

Re: Why American cities are broke (2021) [video]

#29
post #19

Can someone name an example of a city that has gone bankrupt due to infrastructure costs that didn't also lose a large amount of its population or lose key local industries?

I think that’s a rather unfair question as cities should be resilient to significant population shifts. The world isn’t constant so the inability to handle change means you already have issues. Population shifts don’t just happen in an afternoon if a city can’t deal with a 10% population decline over a decade it was already in dire straits. Pensions for example are’t inherently an issue, it’s just a debt that should…

It seems clear to me that a city that loses say half its population is not going to be able to just absorb that and move on. Like a large ant colony, a large number of ants are needed to support and maintain it.
Post reply on HN