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You can't afford to be an artist and/or author, let alone be respected

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Re: You can't afford to be an artist and/or author, let alone be respected

#241

Post by hoseja »

dogman144 wrote: post #165

Per this thread, apparently some engineers really dislike artists. I wonder if this is because artists and engineers both claim expertise in the meaning making process - a painting, or an app. I make my paycheck via that meaningless tech money like most others here, but that aside, I’m under no illusions that I’m doing much beyond solving crossword puzzles for high pay and providing for my family. Every time tech wad…

"artists" are just exploiting human tendency to navel-gaze and socially signal sophistication, producing nothing of value except perhaps the circuses to keep people from finally eating our masters alive.

Re: You can't afford to be an artist and/or author, let alone be respected

#242

Post by 999900000999 »

2-718-281-828 wrote: post #238
vanadium1st wrote: post #87

Outside of my regular job, I am an indie folk music artist, trying to rise in the local music scene here in Dnipro, Ukraine. Even though learning to be a musician from scratch in my 20s was a hard process that took years and years, by far the hardest part of it was trying to establish a passive income, so I could have enough free time for practicing, performing and writing music. A lot of my talented peers are so muc…

> I guess the life of artists was always like that - either you are struggling, or you have a source of passive income that carries you through the development years Most importantly ... wealthy parents ;)

Wealthy parents, wealthy partner. I wouldn't really mind, if I married a girl and she decided after we had kids that she just wanted to be a stay-at-home mom.

And she like paints or something. But that notion also devalues domestic housework, which is just as valuable as typing all day to make ad revenue go up.

But I would still like to think a stay-at-home parent could carve out more time for their hobbies. Particularly once the kids are in school.

Being a music person like me, I totally would love to have classical pianist as a wife and just come home every day to hearing classical piano.

Re: You can't afford to be an artist and/or author, let alone be respected

#243

Post by boredemployee »

nbzso wrote: post #141

A little life story: I had commercial success in art at the humble age of 23. Not only were my paintings respected and collected by accomplished and wealthy individuals, they formed commissions for years to come. My success was the result of an obsession with craftsmanship and clever word-of-mouth marketing. Suddenly, one day after insisting on meeting the deadline of the expensive commission, I had a headache and my…

I somehow relate. Art was my love/joy for many years, then it became my business and I think I lost every joy I had on it

Re: You can't afford to be an artist and/or author, let alone be respected

#245

Post by quickthrower2 »

JoeyBananas wrote: post #170
nbzso wrote: post #141

A little life story: I had commercial success in art at the humble age of 23. Not only were my paintings respected and collected by accomplished and wealthy individuals, they formed commissions for years to come. My success was the result of an obsession with craftsmanship and clever word-of-mouth marketing. Suddenly, one day after insisting on meeting the deadline of the expensive commission, I had a headache and my…

> I don't paint for you. I paint for myself. It's part of my life. A place where there are no compromises, no demands, no expectations, no projections, no assessments, no tasks, no metrics, no applause and no glory. That sounds idealistic to the point of foolishness. The end result of your decision to quit art was that you had to get a job as a graphic designer. Doesn't that achieve even less of your vision? A lot of…

Not just that. You spend way more of the 80000 hours in deliberate practice.

Re: You can't afford to be an artist and/or author, let alone be respected

#246

Post by qaq »

ornornor wrote: post #229
qaq wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

was inflation mostly in industrial equipment or consumer goods?

Doesn’t one trigger the other in a vicious circle?

Increase in production capacity triggers inflations of end product prices?

Re: You can't afford to be an artist and/or author, let alone be respected

#247

Post by Rayhem »

dogman144 wrote: post #165

Per this thread, apparently some engineers really dislike artists. I wonder if this is because artists and engineers both claim expertise in the meaning making process - a painting, or an app. I make my paycheck via that meaningless tech money like most others here, but that aside, I’m under no illusions that I’m doing much beyond solving crossword puzzles for high pay and providing for my family. Every time tech wad…

> I have never heard of a piece of world changing art have the same negative externalities, or really any lasting negative externalities, as world changing tech.

My first guess is that this is because "the art experience" is far more transient at the individual level. With the introduction of, say, WhatsApp, there was a paradigm shift in how we're able to contact people around the world and it doesn't go away. Even the most provocative piece of art is only experienced in the moment and maybe, maybe, causes you to reflect on your perspectives for a little while afterwards.

Re: You can't afford to be an artist and/or author, let alone be respected

#248

Post by Rayhem »

hgs3 wrote: post #217
thethethethe wrote: post #33

Seems a little entitled to me. Why should artists be able to spend their time doing exactly what they want while all the boring plebs have to pick vegetables/write CRUD apps? Sounds like someone is upset that more people dont find utility in their work

> Why should artists be able to spend their time doing exactly what they want while all the boring plebs have to pick vegetables/write CRUD apps? And why do these "boring pleb jobs" exist? Why doesn’t everyone create and share their creations? This isn’t limited to art. Consider the inventor of insulin sold the patent for $1 because he believed “Insulin belongs to the world, not to me.” Anyone who creates from the he…

> Anyone who creates from the heart, artists scientists or otherwise, should be the gold standard that all humans live by.

I really, really wish this would happen, but I don't see a way around the bad actor problem. How do you build a human system that supports this that is also robust to exploitation?

Re: You can't afford to be an artist and/or author, let alone be respected

#249

Post by hgs3 »

Rayhem wrote: post #248
hgs3 wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why should artists be able to spend their time doing exactly what they want while all the boring plebs have to pick vegetables/write CRUD apps? And why do these "boring pleb jobs" exist? Why doesn’t everyone create and share their creations? This isn’t limited to art. Consider the inventor of insulin sold the patent for $1 because he believed “Insulin belongs to the world, not to me.” Anyone who creates from the he…

> Anyone who creates from the heart, artists scientists or otherwise, should be the gold standard that all humans live by. I really, really wish this would happen, but I don't see a way around the bad actor problem. How do you build a human system that supports this that is also robust to exploitation?

> How do you build a human system that supports this that is also robust to exploitation?

Small steps. Acknowledge human nature for better or worse. Acknowledge that humans emulate what their exposed to. Consider cigarette smoking in the US sharply declined once legislation banned it from TV. The same should be done for idols: stop making idols of people based on their net worth. The average Joe knowing who Jeff Bezos is but not Frederick Banting is a failure of the media and education system. So start by promoting better role models and go from there.

Re: You can't afford to be an artist and/or author, let alone be respected

#250

Post by nottorp »

8f2ab37a-ed6c wrote: post #95

There's a lot of entitlement from "artists" who sit on a moral high horse and expect special treatment because they're "expressing a higher truth" while the rest of us normies toil in obscurity and sell our souls to corporate overlords to pay the bills. Not all artists are like that, and IME the more successful and experienced ones are the least likely to think that way, but the attitude is quite common with beginner…

> expect special treatment because they're "expressing a higher truth"

I believe it's mostly critics who look for "higher truth" in art?

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