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If you want to get rich, stop being a fucking joker

sebastianmarshall.com

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Re: If you want to get rich, stop being a fucking joker

#291

Post by yuhong »

bermanoid wrote: post #140
nirvana wrote: post #24

I can identify with what sebastian is experiencing here. Its easy to work with friends, or be friendly with your employees. Its easy for things to get casual. Its easy for people to start running everything by you. Its VERY easy for the sense of urgency to just go away. Its very hard to get people highly motivated about time. It's easy to kill an entire day with BS, and let things just stretch out. Especially when yo…

Its a shame most of the comments on this seem to be reddit quality. Almost as if the people making them have never been in this situation. I think the problem is, anyone that's worked in the startup world for a while has been in this situation. But most of them have seen it from the other side. Where you've got maybe 2% equity in a company if you're lucky, and a salary that's about half what you'd be making flipping…

I agree that managers should stop pretend to themselves and others that they are perfect.

Re: If you want to get rich, stop being a fucking joker

#292

Post by JonHere »

lionhearted wrote: post #159
bermanoid wrote: post #125

"Dear Sebastian, we quit, piss off. Best, Sam, Lee, and Jon." Seriously, this is just ridiculous. Is there anyone here that would actually put up with this ridiculous public shaming at all, let alone from a CEO that's off in Asia staying up "20 hours" to print flyers for one of his other companies, while he bitches that you're not reneging on your teaching commitments (which I would presume he knew about when he took…

A couple points - They're partners, not employees. Yes, I'll suffer at the printshop when I promised it. My colleague offered to do it, but he just had a baby and it would be ridiculous to keep him all night. No one else was available on Sunday night. > they tend to be neither very good businessmen nor good employers. My staff like me, I pay top of market (sometimes 10x market pay, if the person is worth it but short…

Jon here.

First: I'm fine with this email. Didn't love it, responded to it in a way that raised my own issues, worked them out with Seb on the phone, moved on.

Second: I'm fine with him posting this email. He posts a lot of very candid material about his somewhat unique approach to life and business, which I respect and have benefited from, so am happy to contribute back in the form of a character in one of his stories.

Third: Y'all need to spend a lot less time speculating on other people's approach to situations that you have very little context on. He posted this, I can only imagine, because it was a very unique thing that he tried and (I can attest to) ultimately found success in. As some in here have commented, "Why are people positively responding to this, is that some kind of cult?" Just shut it. No, seriously. Stop contributing that garbage. People on his blog benefit from his advice, that's why they come back. The question is, why are you over here talking about it? More specifically, why are you talking about it and Sebastian as if you know what's going on, as opposed to using it as a starting point for when something like this might or might not (or is always or never) appropriate?

Forth: To the many civil comments in here, no offense!

Fifth: Ok back to work, HN is for jokers. ;)

Re: If you want to get rich, stop being a fucking joker

#293

Post by kahawe »

itmag wrote: post #277
kahawe wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is very far fetched armchair psychology but people driven _THAT_ incredibly much are usually not fueled by positive energy (alone). Together with the almost compulsive comparing to other people, sounds a lot like coping mechanisms for an inferiority complex or worse. OP should consider some therapy to learn about why he is so focused on comparing to others and why he is so hell-bent on work.

Interesting. Do you think it is possible to be extremely driven/ambitious/perseverant without having the motivation of external comparison?

This is an interesting question... I would say yes it is possible, there can surely be other motivators why you might work very hard.

In this case, I just got the feeling from reading his posts that OP has a very VERY strong bias towards comparing and measuring up to other people; and he is extremely focused on success and achievements in what feels to me like an unnaturally extreme way. Quite a few of his posts focus on nothing but that and all together just feels unhealthy and un-natural to me. That's the distinction I see to "just" being VERY motivated vs. being "driven". Being a work-a-holic by definition is an unhealthy behavior and there could be a whole bunch of reasons why people slip into that.

Like I said, it is nothing but armchair psychology - but the possibility that certain psychological issues could actually end up benefitting your career or success (or even success with women) is pretty much undisputed. Not all flight mechanisms or addictions have to be to very obvious substances. Work and success and being praised can be very powerful and toxic.

Re: If you want to get rich, stop being a fucking joker

#294

Post by forensic »

itmag wrote: post #277
kahawe wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is very far fetched armchair psychology but people driven _THAT_ incredibly much are usually not fueled by positive energy (alone). Together with the almost compulsive comparing to other people, sounds a lot like coping mechanisms for an inferiority complex or worse. OP should consider some therapy to learn about why he is so focused on comparing to others and why he is so hell-bent on work.

Interesting. Do you think it is possible to be extremely driven/ambitious/perseverant without having the motivation of external comparison?

The key thing is that his ambition is not to achieve something, it's to "be the top 1%".

His ambition is all about being better than others.

Healthy ambition is an ambition to create something beautiful, to help people, to deliver the total solution, to live up to your own standards and values.

Unhealthy ambition is to dominate other, to be superior, to make the most money, to look the best, to constantly compare yourself to others.

People who constantly compare themselves to others usually do have inferiority complexes.

Re: If you want to get rich, stop being a fucking joker

#295

Post by vacri »

vacri wrote: post #286
lionhearted wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A couple points - They're partners, not employees. Yes, I'll suffer at the printshop when I promised it. My colleague offered to do it, but he just had a baby and it would be ridiculous to keep him all night. No one else was available on Sunday night. > they tend to be neither very good businessmen nor good employers. My staff like me, I pay top of market (sometimes 10x market pay, if the person is worth it but short…

You pay 10x market rate (as someone has said, this means $1 million for a good engineer)? This doesn't get with either "if we make $10k in 6 months" or "if you work really hard AND we perform unexpectedly well, you'll be rewarded with a free trip in Asia". This 'paying 10x' thing is utter bullshit, made up on the spot to make it sound like you're the good guy. If you had that money available, you'd be hiring more sta…

to late to edit: "This doesn't gel with..."

Re: If you want to get rich, stop being a fucking joker

#296

Post by dspeyer »

jodrellblank wrote: post #276
dspeyer wrote: post #272

Are they really jokers, or were the tasks unreasonable in the first place? The only way to know is to understand the tasks in detail, which I suspect the author doesn't. The whole "just get it done" thing sounds impressive, but it doesn't hold up in reality. Just cure AIDS. What are you waiting for? People are dying! Get that cure finished by Monday. Also note that there's a large border zone where things are possibl…

The whole "just get it done" thing sounds impressive, but it doesn't hold up in reality. Yes it does, you're just not reading it properly. Assume you're being attacked by a wild animal, which attitude is more helpful out of the following? 1) I will do anything to overpower it and kill it, or any acceptable substitute such as distracting or trapping it, or escaping in any other fashion. 2) Well, it might be too powerf…

So why haven't you cured AIDS? What in your argument (or the OP's) changes when the difficulty of the problem is raised to absurdity?

Some problems are easy. Some are hard. Some are too hard to be worth solving. Some are essentially unsolvable. When someone argues problems are in category 2 by ignoring categories 3 and 4, they lose credibility.

As for trusting the OP's intelligence, he appears to be a marketer ranting at engineers. Even if he's extremely intelligent, he doesn't have the knowledge to judge if what he wants is possible or not.

Re: If you want to get rich, stop being a fucking joker

#298

Post by kahawe »

kahawe wrote: post #194
bermanoid wrote: post #125

"Dear Sebastian, we quit, piss off. Best, Sam, Lee, and Jon." Seriously, this is just ridiculous. Is there anyone here that would actually put up with this ridiculous public shaming at all, let alone from a CEO that's off in Asia staying up "20 hours" to print flyers for one of his other companies, while he bitches that you're not reneging on your teaching commitments (which I would presume he knew about when he took…

I agree with you and there is a lot to learn from this public schmear campaign and from his very obvious failures. I am surprised how many positive replies he got on the blog, though... is this some cult? First and foremost he seems to be suffering from severe reality distortion with the "we are amongst the 1% and should be multi-millionaires". Second, this is an outrageous whining and bitching very alike to what lit…

I also posted this as a comment to his blog - needless to say it was NOT published. Obviously he doesn't like any negative PR or critical voices on there that might make him look bad and not-1%-y.

Re: If you want to get rich, stop being a fucking joker

#299

Post by Flenser »

mgkimsal wrote: post #223
Flenser wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there anyone here that would actually put up with this ridiculous public shaming One one is being publicly shamed. From the article: Names and details changed, for obvious reasons.

The people in the story will still know who they are, and anyone who knows that they work with Sebastian will know too. Yes, if they get upset, it's "their problem", but "their problems" become "your problems" if it affects the relationship. I posted a blog entry about some code I'd inherited from a friend. I posted a problem I'd found (really wasn't even his fault specifically) and my fix. Very matter of fact - I wa…

I hadn't considered that. Thanks for explaining.

Re: If you want to get rich, stop being a fucking joker

#300

Post by jodrellblank »

dspeyer wrote: post #296
jodrellblank wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The whole "just get it done" thing sounds impressive, but it doesn't hold up in reality. Yes it does, you're just not reading it properly. Assume you're being attacked by a wild animal, which attitude is more helpful out of the following? 1) I will do anything to overpower it and kill it, or any acceptable substitute such as distracting or trapping it, or escaping in any other fashion. 2) Well, it might be too powerf…

So why haven't you cured AIDS? What in your argument (or the OP's) changes when the difficulty of the problem is raised to absurdity? Some problems are easy. Some are hard. Some are too hard to be worth solving. Some are essentially unsolvable. When someone argues problems are in category 2 by ignoring categories 3 and 4, they lose credibility. As for trusting the OP's intelligence, he appears to be a marketer rantin…

Not sure if you're being deliberately obtuse or if you really don't see the point.

Compare:

Problems involved in curing AIDS: Needs a biotechnology background, a medical background, a chemistry background, an understanding of disease processes and treatment processes, FDA approval trials, pharmaceutical manufacturing.

Problems mentioned in the article: two people disagreeing on how Amazon S3 should be setup because they aren't happy which account to use or who should pay. Asking the leader to make "stupid nitpicky decisions" which they could make, but don't. Not deciding which email/newsletter program to buy. Not proceeding with what they agreed and instead generating ideas for other kinds of possible business model.

I haven't cured AIDS because I literally can't. They haven't registered an Amazon S3 account because ... what?.

As for trusting the OP's intelligence, he appears to be a marketer ranting at engineers.

And if he was saying "I asked you to have this facebook killer done by last week. Lee, where's that scalable S3 backed website I ordered you to write? Sam, your friend with the content industry connection, I need a film licensing agreement for streaming, come on, I expected better of you. Jon, I told you to sign up some people, Google Plus had millions of users in its first weeks, how many have you cold-called?

Then I'd be right behind you calling him a clueless PHB and a pox on all right-thinking people.

But he isn't doing that. These people agreed a project on a rushed timescale that they voluntarily comitted to - presumably they were all confident it was a solvable problem.

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