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RavynOS – Finesse of macOS, freedom of FreeBSD

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Re: RavynOS – Finesse of macOS, freedom of FreeBSD

#131

Post by drKarl »

2Gkashmiri wrote: post #106
drKarl wrote: post #100

That seems like a lot of work. If what you want is to be able to run MacOS X apps on a free (like in free speech) environment, there's https://www.darlinghq.org/ which is like Wine but for MacOs X apps. If what you want is to replicate the MacOS X UI you can customize the UI of your DE on Linux, or use something like ElementaryOS or use Pantheon. What are the goals of this project?

Cool. What kind of GUI apps work ? The FAQ doesn't say much except basic. Could we use Mac compatible apps in place of windows ones if Linux isn't available? Games? Productivity?

I admit that I haven't personally used Darling but it would be rather pointless if it only worked for commander line apps. All command line apps I use on MacOs X are from homebrew and are available in Linux so for me it only makes sense for GUI apps. Also, I never really missed a MacOs X specific app when I use Linux, most apps I use are multi platform anyway, and the rare one that is not, it usually has a decent equivalent for Linux.

Re: RavynOS – Finesse of macOS, freedom of FreeBSD

#132

Post by gabegm »

2Gkashmiri wrote: post #106
drKarl wrote: post #100

That seems like a lot of work. If what you want is to be able to run MacOS X apps on a free (like in free speech) environment, there's https://www.darlinghq.org/ which is like Wine but for MacOs X apps. If what you want is to replicate the MacOS X UI you can customize the UI of your DE on Linux, or use something like ElementaryOS or use Pantheon. What are the goals of this project?

Cool. What kind of GUI apps work ? The FAQ doesn't say much except basic. Could we use Mac compatible apps in place of windows ones if Linux isn't available? Games? Productivity?

From their GitHub page[0]: "Please note that most GUI applications will not run at the moment."

[0] https://github.com/darlinghq/darling

Re: RavynOS – Finesse of macOS, freedom of FreeBSD

#133

Post by drekipus »

thatguy27 wrote: post #113
prmoustache wrote: post #93

Looks like lots of efforts to recreate the crappy MacOS X UI and user experience. I mean it was fine and less a mess than windows has ever been but it barely evolved since Nextstep in term of UI paradigm and feels dated nowadays. The interesting part in Apple products is mostly the hardware.

My UI experience is very limited (Windows and Linux only, I currently use XFCE4). What do you consider to be the best UI(s) currently offered (in an operating system)?

Unironically gnome 38 for me, I'm on 41 and it seems a bit buggier

Re: RavynOS – Finesse of macOS, freedom of FreeBSD

#134

Post by jeroenhd »

prmoustache wrote: post #104
rich_sasha wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm writing this from my Ubuntu desktop (LTE). Just a few months ago some update broke everything (graphics). Then somehow I fixed it, but it broke again on restart. It took best part of a week for me to fix. You might say it wasn't the best distribution for reliability, or that graphics with NVidia are always an issue etc. but the fact remains that, for me, for an OS to "just work out of the box", MacOS is much bett…

So basically you played with fire(nvidia) and got burned. There is one way to run nvidia stuff on Linux and have a decent experience: run a distro that actually support and has partnership with nvidia, which mean a distro like Redhat Enterprise Linux. It has long term support too. It is the same with Apple or windows if you start using shitty drivers from a shady brand you will run into issues at some point.

nvidia is the bane of my Linux desktop as well but "just don't buy the most popular, compatible, best bang-for-the-buck GPU" isn't really advice that'll help anyone. I'd love for developers and researchers to stop using CUDA but the problem lies upstream. When the hardware and drivers work well enough on Windows the root cause may be that nvidia is a terrible vendor but that doesn't improve the user experience in any way.

With partial open sourcing efforts I predict that the nvidia situation will improve a lot the coming years, luckily. Until then, don't blame people who try Linux for nvidia's problems; there is no user friendly guide to find what hardware is supported how well for Linux and its kernel updates.

Furthermore, even supported drivers are a mess sometimes. There was a bug in the Linux kernel for months where the kernel would freeze up less than a second after boot if you had an Intel GPU and were using a second screen through DisplayPort. My laptop didn't have audio on anything but a beta driver package when I bought it. Ubuntu and friends simply couldn't use modern Intel graphics with multiple displays or hardware acceleration because the drivers were never backported to an LTS supported kernel. One in five times, my Manjaro install kernel panics on boot when switching from text mode to graphics mode, with no obvious way to debug; I was advised to get two USB to serial port adapters to debug the issue which would likely help, but I don't want to bother to be honest.

The world of Linux is full of driver issues, mostly graphics and sometimes audio, that are impossible to even debug without a second computer and a few years of Linux experience. Many common peripherals lack any kind of Linux support as well. The "shitty drivers" come from every brand on every product range and the only guaranteed method to work with you at stuff you'll find is to never ever upgrade your install once you get everything working.

I want Linux to be better for everyone, but overlooking its obvious flaws and blaming users won't get that done.

Re: RavynOS – Finesse of macOS, freedom of FreeBSD

#135

Post by paldepind2 »

still_grokking wrote: post #83
paldepind2 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One needs only to avoid GTK stuff, Electron, and Windows Software, and one gets perfectly consistent behavior. So as long as one avoids all the inconsistencies then one gets consistent shortcuts? ;) Only using Qt apps on Linux is very hard. A lot of good apps are GTK or Electron. On macOS there is no GTK & Qt divide and Electron apps are very good at implementing macOS shortcuts. Hence you get more consistent bindi…

> Only using Qt apps on Linux is very hard. There are even whole distris doing that… ;-) https://kaosx.us/ I have hardly any GTK app installed and I would not know what I'm missing. (Firefox uses GTK but it has it's own UI anyway). Electron? That's the plague of modern times. Besides VSCode (which I will switch away in a blink as soon as the alternatives are ready) I don't use any Electron peep . Also here I would no…

I'm glad you like KDE and by all means keep using it. It sounds like it's the right DE for you.

That being said, your statements about macOS sounds like they are coming from someone who's never used it and are making a fairly uninformed straw-man opinions about it. For instance, the statement "Apple products are dumbed down even more with every release" is just demonstrably false. Apple products gets more features with every release. For instance, the last macOS release got Shortcuts, Focus Modes, and Universal Control. All of which are power user features.

Re: RavynOS – Finesse of macOS, freedom of FreeBSD

#136

Post by baq »

JacobSeated wrote: post #64

KDE is a better desktop environment than MacOS, by far. I have had so many usability issues with my Mac that does not exist in KDE/Linux. E.g. Apple confining the GUI and not including basic functionality. Specifically: - I really miss a decent address bar in finder that can be edited directly - some windows on mac are always on top, preventing access to other windows. E.g. Password dialogs for encrypted hard drives.…

> always on top, preventing access to other windows. E.g. Password dialogs for encrypted hard drives.

this is something that should be done everywhere, if it isn't, it's a potential security issue.

Re: RavynOS – Finesse of macOS, freedom of FreeBSD

#140

Post by still_grokking »

nikitaga wrote: post #117
still_grokking wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Because in MacOS those arrow-based text shortcuts are Alt-based, not Ctrl-based, and right Alt is already located right next to the arrow keys where it's most convenient for those particular shortcuts. Where's the problem to tick a checkbox and change that? > Been there tried that, on Ubuntu, last attempt a couple years ago. Does not work, many apps have Ctrl+tab hard coded to switch between their tabs, so if you m…

> Where's the problem to tick a checkbox and change that? What checkbox do you mean? (I understood the one about ctrl+tab, but not this one) I'll give KDE a shot next time, but I think some apps I use heavily are actually GTK apps (such as Firefox), we'll see how it goes.

> What checkbox do you mean? (I understood the one about ctrl+tab, but not this one)

Maybe I'm confused, but I have an right Ctrl and a right Alt. Both keys are left to the arrow keys. I thought you wanted to switch around also those two keys. That would be ticking a checkbox in the keyboard config afik.

> I'll give KDE a shot next time, but I think some apps I use heavily are actually GTK apps (such as Firefox), we'll see how it goes.

I also use Firefox. It uses GTK. But this makes no difference as Firefox does its own thing anyway. It uses GTK only under the hood.

The two most annoying things with Firefox are solvable: You can use custom.css to switch around the OK / Cancel buttons in dialogs (thankfully they don't use "real" GTK dialogs but some XUL, otherwise you would need to patch the GTK libs) and one can have proper file-dialogs by now through the desktop-portal interface. So Firefox remains its own thing but at least the GTK parts don't creep up anymore.

Oh, and global menu does not work in FF (even it works for "normal" GTK apps). Also they still didn't manage to make keyboard shortcuts configurable. But that are FF issues on any desktop or OS…

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