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Ford F-150 Lightning: Fast Truck, Slow Computer

theverge.com

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Re: Ford F-150 Lightning: Fast Truck, Slow Computer

#451

Post by kensai »

nemothekid wrote: post #425
kensai wrote: post #422

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Excuse me guys, but I think your comments although interesting for their story are out of place here. The Verge articles talks about a slow computer. The F150 issues can literally be fixed if Ford decides to install a quicker one on MY23. What does this thing have to do with software engineers payment and the rant that followed?

> The F150 issues can literally be fixed if Ford decides to install a quicker one on MY23. I’m unconvinced the problem can be fixed by “installing a quicker computer”. The functionality here isn’t materially different from what Tesla offered almost 10 years ago at this point. If nearly 10 years of hardware advancements couldn’t close the gap, a marginally faster computer next year won’t do it either.

The unavoidable Tesla comparison sorry, I am not convinced. What functionality is better? Not everybody is interested in fart apps or Steam games or other questionable "extra" functionality. OK, let's just say that Tesla has better software. It lacks however in other departments, such a build quality.

But fact of the matter is here the following: if one reads The Verge article, his complains are mainly about the slow software and some unlabeled functionality here and there. Which can easily be fixed in a future iteration (ie MY23). He does not complain about the software being "that bad" or needing to offer fart apps or anything. Just slow.

Hardware problem, not software. And yes, the same applies for many car companies, even ones that sell premium products (BMW, etc). They need to offer faster processors.

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning: Fast Truck, Slow Computer

#452

Post by [deleted] »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #58
7952 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. Just look at the appalling forward blind spot on a lot of trucks and SUVs. Or the way cars have become taller at the expense of aerodynamics.

People like sitting higher up, or do not like being seated lower, or so much lower, than others. It might also be safer to be in a higher up car in the event of a collision. Pretty much all the families I know with young kids and toddlers has a full size SUV. Every time I ask why they did not get a minivan such as Odyssey or Sienna, every response is they like SUVs and do not want to sit lower in the minivan. Even th…

[deleted]

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning: Fast Truck, Slow Computer

#453

Post by ivan1783 »

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #189
colatkinson wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Way back when EVs/hybrids were first hitting the market, I remember some chatter about basically adding an external speaker to play fake engine noises. Not perfect, but it might help a bit. I've personally encountered a decent number of Tesla/e-bike drivers who have... nonstandard views on what a stop sign means, and the fact that the vehicles are silent is always a bit disconcerting.

Most EVs do have such a speaker. But it only plays when they're driving at low speeds where they could be a threat to pedestrians, bikes, etc. And also there's no standardization of the noise.

All EVs have a speaker and the noise is standardized. The problem is there is a different standard in each country and the solution is to make one noise which covers all of the standards - thats why it ends up sounding so strange. The combination of the various standards varies from OEM to OEM - thats why it ends up sounding different OEM to OEM.

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning: Fast Truck, Slow Computer

#454

Post by spaniard89277 »

megablast wrote: post #186
Dig1t wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I completely agree with your conclusion, this is why I feel that European tech companies can't compete with US ones at all. They just refuse to pay enough to attract the best engineers.

What a strange comment. Ford is a us tech company. Most people in Europe don’t want to leave.

We don't want to leave but you can bet american companies have it easy fishing here. It's increasingly common for american companies to set small teams around here.

The only problem american companies have is dealing with the workers rights around here.

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning: Fast Truck, Slow Computer

#455

Post by KronisLV »

deepGem wrote: post #443
cmrdporcupine wrote: post #170

FWIW Ford was hiring around this area (southern Ontario) for software engineers to work on their in-car systems like this. Not sure if this specific one. From what I've heard they were woefully underpaying. A friend of mine talked to them -- very qualified; like me he worked on similar touchscreen, interactive display type systems at Google/Nest, and had a general background on similar systems, and on QNX, etc. They…

I see this sentiment everywhere outside the tech first ecosystem. In the generalization of 'workers'/'engineers' v/s 'supervisors'/'managers', programmers are often seen as just workers. For whatever reason, an MBA or even a BBA is seen as an officer/supervisor. Even product teams at tech first companies tend to represent this dogma. There are exceptions but the programmers are workers dogma is prevalent in this worl…

> ... they will almost never be able to build a software driven car, which is the car of the future.

Software can make a lot of things better, but for whatever reason most cars end up with closed software solutions with a limited amount of updates, problems with how responsive/inefficient they are and a plethora of other complications. At that point, slapping an Android tablet on the dash for navigation might be a better idea, since at least that can be changed out or customized with relatively few issues, versus being stuck with a flawed built in system that's a black box as far as you're concerned.

Alas, why even pay for that? Why not have a car with a simple dash, less electronics and simply mounts for you to bring your own. Of course, that's not the direction in which the industry seems to be headed.

Now, this might be a silly comparison, but I can't help but to think of comparing a simple soviet tractor (say, a T-25 https://de-m-wikipedia-org.translate.goog/wiki/T-25?_x_tr_sl... ) which is simple to use and repair, to something like a modern John Deere. Perhaps that's one of the better examples, where the more complex design ends up rather expensive, even if you don't need all of the features. But the former, simpler design? Well, somehow ones like that aren't manufactured much nowadays.

Surely in regards to cars it should also be possible to pick the essentials (e.g. in regards to safety and security) and then offer plenty of different models, with varying different levels of technology embedded. Then again, it's easier to pump up the price if you cram more features in even in the basic models. Of course, it's not like that would be okay if those closed systems were to be replaced with open source either - since that might be a serious safety liability.

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning: Fast Truck, Slow Computer

#456

Post by 7952 »

vanilla_nut wrote: post #242
davidw wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This "arms race" is piling up stacks and stacks of bodies.

I've been slowly writing a near-future science fiction story where everyone drives around 15 feet above the ground and has to enter their car on a ladder, because over 50 years vehicles slowly crept up in height and nobody wanted to be the "low car" on the road. It started out as a joke back in 2010, partially inspired by "A Nice Morning Drive" ( http://www.2112.net/powerwindows/transcripts/19731100roadand... ) from…

You can definitely see paralels in fashion trends. Just look at the use of ruffs or extravegent cod pieces in medieval Europe.

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning: Fast Truck, Slow Computer

#457

Post by redox99 »

twobitshifter wrote: post #93

With the performance of this and other EVs now beating the Raptor pickup, do you think we’ll start to see performance regulated for safety reasons? A massive pickup able to 0-60 in a few seconds is cool, but in the hands of the less responsible it sounds like a huge safety risk. We cap the performance of tiny scooters but multiton trucks are able to go as fast as humanly possible?

There's nothing unsafe with having lots of acceleration at your disposal if you use it appropriately and responsibly. In fact in some situations it's safer to have that acceleration.

Let's not continue regulating things that are fun and/or useful just because some people might misuse them.

It probably wouldn't really make much difference in the real world. How many crashes that resulted in serious injury actually happened only because the car could do 3 seconds 0-60, and if the car was only able to do 0-60 in 7 seconds, the crash wouldn't have occurred?

I know there's lots of videos of people driving Lambos for the first time and immediately crashing after spinning or something. But even in those cases, it's almost always low speed crashes with nobody getting hurt.

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning: Fast Truck, Slow Computer

#458

Post by WatchDog »

hef19898 wrote: post #402
WatchDog wrote: post #381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree mostly with your points, other than when you get into how much the cars cost. The unit price of the cars isn't really relevant to the cost of developing it's software. A low cost model that moves sells a lot of units, can likely afford to spend more on software compared to a high cost model that moves only a few units.

That's not how unit costs and margins are calculated.

I don't think I described how unit costs and margins are calculated.

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning: Fast Truck, Slow Computer

#459

Post by ceeplusplus »

rasz wrote: post #398
bergenty wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does Europe make it work? Lower salaries, higher cost of living. Is it just that so many essentials are handled by the government? Or are they still coasting on the colonial wealth (this doesn’t seem likely)

Europeans use weird tricks like charging two digit margin on medication, socialized education, and taxing fuel to pay for road maintenance.

They also use weird tricks like underpaying health staff (doctors and nurses make 40% of what they do in the US, look at NHS salary tables), relying on US defense subsidies, and taxing everyone making over 100k at insane rates.

We already have "socialized education" in public schools in most blue states if you make under 120k. The financial aid is generous enough that you aren't paying any tuition. The 70k sticker price is only paid by wealthy students, as a means of price discrimination.

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning: Fast Truck, Slow Computer

#460

Post by ismailegilmez »

irrational wrote: post #386
flir wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've found that paying companies a big pile of cash to do a thing is much more acceptable than paying an individual a big pile of cash to do the same thing. I don't know why. Risk management maybe.

If the person is a full time employee you have to pay benefits and you can’t just fire them when the project is done. Easier to just contract it out.

Yeah, I totally agree with that. It might be better to just contract the job out.
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