How is this going to have a better future than GNUStep, while being up to date with macOS frameworks?
RavynOS – Finesse of macOS, freedom of FreeBSD
61–70 of 387 posts
Re: RavynOS – Finesse of macOS, freedom of FreeBSD
#62At this point, "Consistent shortcuts" is the main "feature" keeping me on MacOS. Cmd+, opens preferences in every app. Cmd+[ or ] goes "back" and "forward", in every app that has those concepts Cmd+Shift+[ or ] switches tabs, in every app that has tabs, except a handful of stupid chat apps who think they're too good for it. Cmd+W always closes the current tab, if the app has tabs, (or current window, if the app has n…
"Consistent shortcuts" is the main "feature" keeping me on KDE. Cmd+Shift+, opens preferences in every app. Alt+Left or Right (or Back or Forward) goes "back" and "forward", in every app that has those concepts Cmd+Tab or Cmd+Shift-Tab switches tabs, in every app that has tabs. Cmd+W closes the current tab by default, if the app has tabs, (or current window, if the app has no tabs) Cmd+Q quits the app. Etc. What's ag…
> One needs only to avoid GTK stuff, Electron, and Windows Software, and one gets perfectly consistent behavior.
So as long as one avoids all the inconsistencies then one gets consistent shortcuts? ;) Only using Qt apps on Linux is very hard. A lot of good apps are GTK or Electron. On macOS there is no GTK & Qt divide and Electron apps are very good at implementing macOS shortcuts. Hence you get more consistent bindings.
Also, many bindings are absent even in Qt app. For instance, on macOS you have Emacs-style bindings in every app (Ctrl+a, Ctrl+p, Ctrl+k, etc.). Those are very useful. You can get them on Linux (at leasts in GTK apps) but it's very hacky and it conflicts with a bunch of stuff, whereas they fit right in on macOS. Cmd+Shift+/ to search all menus is also super useful and I don't think you can do that on KDE.
> And those behaviors can be "even" configured globally! (That's something to mention specially of course when talking to Mac users as such an advanced feature like "configurability" is notoriously missing in the Apple universe).
If you don't think macOS can be configured then you are mistaken. It can't be configured to the extend that KDE can that is true (some of us consider that to be a feature). But a lot is still possible. As an example, kindaVim adds vim-style keybindings to every app which is kinda cool.
Re: RavynOS – Finesse of macOS, freedom of FreeBSD
#63This looks like not a reskin of an existing FreeBSD or Linux windows system, but an actual reimplementation of macOS. Very interesting if they can pull it off! I wonder though, why start with old Objective-C cocoa APIs instead of Swift?
I wonder if Cocoa is that language specific or if it’s become legacy tech. When Swift was announced and when I explored it for personal projects, I was very much calling Cocoa APIs. They definitely catered to ObjC-isms, but my impression was that all of the underlying UI frameworks were being preserved even if they might gain additive APIs to be used less awkwardly in Swift.
This year Apple made the point Objective-C is done, time to move on, for those that were still wondering.
Around minute 4, or go through the transcript.
Re: RavynOS – Finesse of macOS, freedom of FreeBSD
#64KDE is a better desktop environment than MacOS, by far. I have had so many usability issues with my Mac that does not exist in KDE/Linux. E.g. Apple confining the GUI and not including basic functionality.
Specifically:
- I really miss a decent address bar in finder that can be edited directly
- some windows on mac are always on top, preventing access to other windows. E.g. Password dialogs for encrypted hard drives.
- "Cut" does not work for files in finder, severely complicating moving files
- The Maximize button does not maximize, but instead enters full screen, meaning that I never use it
- There is a delay of ~100ms when pushing caps lock on the keyboard that can not be turned off without installing karabiner elements
- Pressing enter in Finder renames a file instead of opening it, an action that is rarely needed and extremely unintuitive – this erroneous behaviour can also be corrected with karabiner elements
- Sometimes audio balance will randomly shift to the left or right with bluetooth headphones, had to install yet another app to auto-fix it every time it happens because Apple is too daft to fix the bug.
- There is no delete key on the Mac keyboard, meaning that deleting a file is suddenly a two- key shortcut combo, whereas it is much easier on Windows/Linux (hit delete). Sigh.
Re: RavynOS – Finesse of macOS, freedom of FreeBSD
#65Earlier quoted context omitted.
"Consistent shortcuts" is the main "feature" keeping me on KDE. Cmd+Shift+, opens preferences in every app. Alt+Left or Right (or Back or Forward) goes "back" and "forward", in every app that has those concepts Cmd+Tab or Cmd+Shift-Tab switches tabs, in every app that has tabs. Cmd+W closes the current tab by default, if the app has tabs, (or current window, if the app has no tabs) Cmd+Q quits the app. Etc. What's ag…
Since you mention GTK, I assume that must be the root of my problem – I keep trying Ubuntu and some other GNOME distros, haven't tried KDE. Ubuntu was definitely a mess when it comes to consistent shortcuts when I last tried it (a couple years ago).
Yes, the lacking usability of GTK (3 and later) apps is the root of all problems with GTK desktops.
But the issues aren't Linux specific of course.
KDE is by now one of the most lightweight¹, stable, and usable desktops by far.
And KDE is completely configurable regarding look&feel. You can make it by now even look and behave like any other desktop with one click using global "themes" (the feature switches more than the theme; that's why I've put the term in quotes).
https://store.kde.org/browse?cat=121&ord=rating
¹ KDE beats mostly everything in this point, except maybe raw WMs and LXQt. Yes, it's more lightweight than say the GTK3 based Xfce by now… The "magic" lies to one part in Qt that gets optimized for embedded applications now for many years, and all the work in optimizing KDE itself after it got bad rep one and half decade ago for being bloated (which was indeed true back than; but they learned the lesson; only the internet FUD never dies).
Re: RavynOS – Finesse of macOS, freedom of FreeBSD
#66Earlier quoted context omitted.
For the tabs Ctrl+tab/Ctrl+shift+tab is the standard on Windows and Linux, so i can see how some apps can forget about macOS' specialness.
Speaking of this specialness... having the main system shortcut modifier – Cmd – physically located under both your thumbs is priceless. In contrast, the Ctrl keys are usually located such that they're best accessed with your pinkies. Who thought that making people use their weakest fingers for the most common shortcuts is a good idea? Could you remap your keys to have Ctrl keys under the thumbs in Windows / Linux? Y…
It's also worth considering changing your keyboard itself. I use a Pinky4 and have all the modifiers easily reachable by thumb. Backspace and space as well. There is a gap of no keys in the corners that means the furthest left thumb key on the left half is still as far right as alt/command on traditional keyboards.
Re: RavynOS – Finesse of macOS, freedom of FreeBSD
#67The one thing keeping me on MacOS is that it is "*nix that works". I have never found Ubuntu / Linux to be as stable; worrying about updates breaking things, updates indeed breaking things, drivers randomly stopping working, googling in desperation for half-baked fixes online, randomly trying different options in some dotfile until stuff works etc. Mac just works; maybe there are features that Linux would give me, but as I spend my time between the terminal and the browser, I'm not sure I'd notice much.
I think I'm not alone in this approach; I wonder if this project has the change to be as rock-solid as Apple's offerings. If not, I'm guessing it's not for me.
Re: RavynOS – Finesse of macOS, freedom of FreeBSD
#68Why not pick up where Elementary OS left off, instead of starting from scratch?
Do you mean having huge useless toolbars eating valuable screen real state?
It seriously had worse UI design decisions than Gnome 3.
Re: RavynOS – Finesse of macOS, freedom of FreeBSD
#69At this point, "Consistent shortcuts" is the main "feature" keeping me on MacOS. Cmd+, opens preferences in every app. Cmd+[ or ] goes "back" and "forward", in every app that has those concepts Cmd+Shift+[ or ] switches tabs, in every app that has tabs, except a handful of stupid chat apps who think they're too good for it. Cmd+W always closes the current tab, if the app has tabs, (or current window, if the app has n…
I'm less impressed by MacOS shortcuts than you are. Out of the box, several short-cuts conflicts. Moreover, on non-US keyboards, many MacOS shortcuts are simply not reachable.
The non-US keyboard thing is frankly ridiculous, on my layout I cannot even switch between windows of an app... Quelle finesse!
Re: RavynOS – Finesse of macOS, freedom of FreeBSD
#70The one thing keeping me on MacOS is that it is "*nix that works". I have never found Ubuntu / Linux to be as stable; worrying about updates breaking things, updates indeed breaking things, drivers randomly stopping working, googling in desperation for half-baked fixes online, randomly trying different options in some dotfile until stuff works etc. Mac just works; maybe there are features that Linux would give me, bu…
I don't know what is the last time you used linux but lately there is great improvements in user experience. I know non-techie people using Linux Mint/ubuntu
without any hassels.