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Using the same Arch Linux installation for a decade

meribold.org

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Re: Using the same Arch Linux installation for a decade

#351

Post by pabs3 »

vbernat wrote: post #235
goodpoint wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Debian unstable is equally functional on desktops. 15 years without having to reinstall.

It's even better (to use unstable) since you don't have disappearing packages, you have access to packages only in unstable (Firefox instead of Firefox ESR), and you get timely security update. 20 years ago, things may break a lot in unstable. But nowadays, you just have to be careful to only use "apt upgrade" and from time to time "apt full-upgrade" (and check what is removed as it could remove everything).

You can also pin most packages to testing, but allow packages from unstable/experimental to be installed but pinned at lower priority and also pin security updates from unstable at a higher priority. I think this approach is the best of both worlds.

Re: Using the same Arch Linux installation for a decade

#352

Post by pabs3 »

malermeister wrote: post #16
valbaca wrote: post #3

Exhibiting the self discipline to not distro-hop in 10 years is more commendable...but I guess that's Arch Linux for you.

Yeah Arch is basically the final destination all that distro hopping gets you to. No reason to hop once you've arrived.

For me Debian was that final destination. Cygwin -> Knoppix -> Debian unstable -> Debian testing.

Re: Using the same Arch Linux installation for a decade

#353

Post by senorsmile »

3np wrote: post #338
meribold wrote: post #35

I can provide some details regarding the times things did break that I mentioned in the article. * In September 2014, X broke, and I created an `/etc/X11/Xwrapper.config` file with the lines `allowed_users = anybody` and `needs_root_rights = yes` to get it to work again. I don't remember and don't have notes on why that helped. It sure does sound like a pretty terrible hack. I don't have that Xwrapper.config file any…

My first significant Arch install was also pretty long-lived (not 10y but def >5) Did you go straight to full-on systemd when you installed it? Arch was transitioning to systemd by default around the time of your initial installation (default since Oct 2012 so you would have just missed it if you went with defaults). Mine was a few years of cruft-accumulation in already and my init system understanding was not super…

I had a couple of storage/media servers on Arch that I set up in 2008. In 2012 when systemd came, I experienced lots of pain. I eventually got things working but it took me a long time not to hate systemd. They both failed within a few months of each other in 2018, putting them right around 10 years of Arch as well.

Re: Using the same Arch Linux installation for a decade

#354

Post by Semaphor »

LukeShu wrote: post #298
Macha wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmm, I remember UsrMerge being a non-event from a user POV. The official instructions seem quite short too: https://archlinux.org/news/the-lib-directory-becomes-a-symli...

For many users it was a non-event; but if you missed that news post, and didn't pass `--ignore glibc` to your `-Syu`, then your system broke. And a sizable minority of users missed the news post. (Shamefully, I was in that minority.)

I like my pacman helper, pikaur [0]. Not only does it allow me to edit/view changed AUR files, it also alerts me whenever there is archlinux.org news

[0]: https://github.com/actionless/pikaur

Re: Using the same Arch Linux installation for a decade

#355

Post by synergy20 »

I use ubuntu LTS to ease software build with android, yocto, some vendor's SDK,etc as they're all tested on ubuntu LTS, so do many other projects from github etc.

Every few years I do a full re-installation (instead of dist-upgrade as I have quite some local installations that made things complex).

How Arch cope with that? I like the live-update-never-need-full-reinstall side, meanwhile I don't want to spend time to fix those tested-on-ubuntu-lts-ready-to-go third party software package when Arch is used.

Re: Using the same Arch Linux installation for a decade

#357

Post by akshat_h »

agumonkey wrote: post #220
meribold wrote: post #35

I can provide some details regarding the times things did break that I mentioned in the article. * In September 2014, X broke, and I created an `/etc/X11/Xwrapper.config` file with the lines `allowed_users = anybody` and `needs_root_rights = yes` to get it to work again. I don't remember and don't have notes on why that helped. It sure does sound like a pretty terrible hack. I don't have that Xwrapper.config file any…

I had a similar life with arch. A handful of boot blocking issues, let's say 5. 4 out of them were solved after joining #arch on now-dead freenode and realizing this was explained on arch main page. 1 of them was a deeper borkage that arch team didn't catch early and required a bit of surgery. The problem was gone in 5 minutes.

It is technically not the arch way to use aur helper, but I use paru instead of pacman which shows arch news before updating.

This makes sure I get any arch news before potential breaking updates.

Re: Using the same Arch Linux installation for a decade

#358

Post by esjeon »

The whole discussion over "rolling release is stable" never gets concluded because people are not agreeing upon what they talk about. Here are the basic facts that the discussion should be based on:

* "Stable" is not a binary property - it's a scalar. The exact level of stability assumed by the word can be different depending on the context.

* By design, rolling releases are less stable than regular releases. You simply can't beat the stability of something that doesn't change.

* People have different stability requirements. You don't expect something works on your own laptop to work in every occasion.

Re: Using the same Arch Linux installation for a decade

#359

Post by zdragnar »

throwaway1777 wrote: post #216
zdragnar wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get that some people don't like tinkering. They want something that will always Just Work. Some of my friends who were long time linux uses switched to macs and stayed there. MacOS wasn't that for me- brew was the cause of no shortage of pain, but even that could have been lived with. It's also not exactly stable- one company I worked for (about 7 years total) had a blanket request that people not update OSX to new…

Your points are all valid, but I will point out homebrew not working isn’t really an apple issue. Also this isn’t quite same level as X or drivers not working. It seems intuitive that less configurability in is in fact a reason why macOS is more stable

When comparing Linux to Apple's laptops, homebrew is the defacto package manager. The Apple store is pretty much GUI applications or tools, and I'm not putting my personal credit card info into a machine I don't own, so I never bother seeing up the app store anyway.

The primary package manager sucking is a very serious flaw for Apple when trying to get developers to convert from Linux.

FWIW, I personally don't ever recall an upgrade causing X or drivers to stop working, though I've been going through laptops at a rate of one every two or three years lately.

On the other hand, windows and Mac upgrades have certainly caused issues, and misbehaving applications can certainly cause issues on macs (cough teams cough).

Re: Using the same Arch Linux installation for a decade

#360

Post by progre »

ansible wrote: post #277
aarchi wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to Guinness, the top is Voyager 2: > The computer system that has been in continual operation for the longest period is the Computer Command System (CCS) onboard NASA's Voyager 2 spacecraft. This pair of interlinked computers have been in operation since the spacecraft's launch on 20 August 1977. As of 29 October 2020, the CCS has been running for 43 years 70 days. https://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/world…

43 years without a single reset or revision to safe mode (a common feature on spacecraft)? The linked article says that they've updated the software many times, by live patching it, instead of rebooting?

Since there are 2 computers I'm guessing that they are letting one computer update and reset the other one, then repeat for the reverse. The system as a whole would stay up, the individual computers would not.
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