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Ford F-150 Lightning: Fast Truck, Slow Computer

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Re: Ford F-150 Lightning: Fast Truck, Slow Computer

#141

Post by vel0city »

izacus wrote: post #115
vel0city wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which cars have touchscreens and don't have steering wheel media controls?

Renault Zoe was the last one I've drove with that annoying issue (at least the model I had). There was also a BMW Series 1, that requred selecting a media page in dashboard screen and then selecting a next track button. (No support for Auto on that one tho.)

Interesting. It seems like almost all cars sold in the US these days have steering wheel media controls, even cheaper base models. It feels like you'd have to go out of your way to find one that doesn't have it.

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning: Fast Truck, Slow Computer

#142

Post by kcb »

croutonwagon wrote: post #81
rnk wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll agree with that. Yet I alsonever want to buy anything from an enforced middleman again. First I avoided that with Tesla, and now I did it with Rivian. It does have some bugs, so did my last car I bought 20 years ago form a major manufacturer.

The enforced middle man gives you a place to hold accountable or to physically complain to. And provides local jobs. Not to mention the infrastructure to handle things like recalls. People complain about Tesla service but actively want MORE faceless corps not held accountable to sell them things. It makes no sense.

Hold accountable a local area businessman with political connections. What could possibly go wrong?

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning: Fast Truck, Slow Computer

#143

Post by 0x457 »

PaulWaldman wrote: post #50
andrewla wrote: post #14

Generally speaking the horrifying quality of Ford's electronics have been enough to keep me away from even considering purchasing one. Absolutely nothing works right and certainly nothing works well. It may or may not be able to connect bluetooth, it may or may not acknowledge a USB device, it may or may not start blaring whatever FM station was last tuned in for no reason on startup, or start playing the first album…

>Mazda is apparently taking the right approach here -- increasing the tactile buttons on the dash and console, and ditching touchscreens. Huh? After using both Ford's (2022 Explorer) and Mazda's (2022 CX-7) infotainment systems recently for several weeks, I couldn't disagree more. Android Auto and CarPlay interfaces were designed for touchscreen control. Mazda forcing the use of a wheel, like a joystick is a safety h…

> Android Auto and CarPlay interfaces were designed for touchscreen control. Mazda forcing the use of a wheel, like a joystick is a safety hazard.

What? How is it a safety hazard? I'm far more distracted trying to touch the button on display or scroll in my Wrangler, than using a wheel in my Miata. Selection is extremely predictable and always the same order, it's a basic accessibility feature of android.

I enjoy using the knob with android auto far more than touch screen, specifically because I don't have to move eyes of the road or have a hand in an uncomfortable position trying to touch something on the screen.

Plus, switching between navigation and media is a press of a button that is always in the same space - next to the knob. Compared to touchscreen... And on top of everything, it remembers which navigation/media I'm using, so switching between radio and android auto navigation is a single button press.

It's like one of the important features why my last two cars were mazdas.

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning: Fast Truck, Slow Computer

#144

Post by ajross »

bonestamp2 wrote: post #26
Rooster61 wrote: post #7

It's incredibly frustrating to me that buying a vehicle with a pushbutton, working, reliable interface is becoming increasingly impossible to do. Why is UX so horrifically bad in the vehicle space? Is it poor management decisions or a shortage of good UX engineers? I get that lumping everything into the touchscreen can be a cheaper option to build, but I'd GLADLY pay for a different option. I don't understand it.

A lot of automakers are chasing Tesla's one screen design -- they're so envious of the cost savings there. Except the Germans, they're still putting in lots of buttons and knobs -- my next car will likely be German because they seem to understand what people actually want.

Have you driven a Tesla much? The general UX intent is that you're not supposed to need to interact with the screen while driving. Wipers are automatic, lights are automatic (both can be pulsed with the stalks of course). Virtually everything responds to voice commands ("Play Stairway to Heaven", "Navigate to Albertsons", "Set temperature to 72", etc...). All this stuff works really well.

I won't engage with "what people actually want" except to point to sales figures, I guess. Everyone likes different stuff. But the point is that Tesla is winning in this space because they're handing people an outside-the-box solution. Asking for "lots of buttons and knobs" is just demanding the older solution. That doesn't say the older solution is wrong, but it does argue that maybe you're failing to understand the new paradigm.

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning: Fast Truck, Slow Computer

#145

Post by genocidicbunny »

elzbardico wrote: post #91
genocidicbunny wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Turing the wheel unpredictably selects objects on the screen, forcing you to keep your eyes off the road while you keep turning the wheel until the item you need is selected. You shouldn't need to do anything requiring the wheel while you're driving though. All the controls that you would want to have accessible while you're driving are physical (climate control, basic media/phone controls.) For everything else you…

Usually me an my wife take turns driving. And we have a tacit agreement that the passenger control this kind of stuff. So, if I am driving, I ask my wife to set a destination on the GPS, play some music, change the temperature, and when she is driving I become the navigator/flight-engineer. Having those controls in the wheel would be incredibly annoying for us.

In my Mazda, the climate controls are physical, but in the center console, and easily accessible to both driver and front passenger. The wheel-based controls are things like skip forward/backward, bring up voice input, or end call. That's also about the extent of things I consider the driver should be focusing on. When I was younger, on family trips, even climate control was something relegated to the passenger; Even for the driver side.

I consider putting in a destination on the GPS, or setting up my music playlist to be 'park the car' types of things if simply doing it via voice control doesn't work.

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning: Fast Truck, Slow Computer

#146

Post by WorldMaker »

prepend wrote: post #92

> but also a stopgap as Ford resets its entire software strategy around Android in partnership with Google. This doesn’t seem like a good idea because there are Android people and iOS people. Alienating a large swath of customers is not a good idea. That and I don’t want Google monitoring all my car data. One of the big reasons I don’t have a Tesla is their data policy. But I’d rather Tesla have my data than Google b…

> This doesn’t seem like a good idea because there are Android people and iOS people

Android Automotive (the "base OS" that's not even really "Android" in the way that you think of it from phones; the impression I have gathered is that it is a separate embedded Linux sharing only a few parts and iterating in a different pace) that Ford is moving to still supports Apple CarPlay as well as it supports Android Auto (the Apple CarPlay competitor). It's another fun place where Google's branding strategy confuses way more than it helps by having very similar names for very different products, in this case Android Automotive !== Android Auto.

But yeah, the other complaints are valid: Android Automotive is still so new we have no idea if Google is truly in it for the long haul or if that's another badly named brand eventually likely to end up in the graveyard. I don't think we know how much data Google will be monitoring from it either.

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning: Fast Truck, Slow Computer

#147

Post by kortilla »

vel0city wrote: post #108
twblalock wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What good is tactile feedback when you have no idea what you're adjusting without staring at the screen? This is what people don't understand about touchscreen vs dial-based UIs. One is not safer than the other if they both require you to take your eyes off the road and look at a screen! If car makers want to have a button control a feature, then they should simply make a button that controls that feature. Cars wor…

The idea with the touchscreen controls is that the driver shouldn't really be using the touchscreen at all while driving except as a quick reference to the map. You're not supposed to be using the screen to adjust your media while driving, there's steering wheel and voice controls. You're not supposed to be adjusting the climate controls while moving, auto climate should just handle it. Why would I want to be distrac…

If you’re distracted by adjusting the temperature you shouldn’t be driving at all.

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning: Fast Truck, Slow Computer

#148

Post by kortilla »

vel0city wrote: post #128
twblalock wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt that was actually the intention, and even if it was, we all know that's not how people actually use their cars.

Yeah, they drive while holding their phones on speakerphone while talking into it like they're about to take a bite out of a sandwich. Other than volume and next track/station, just about any other media control is going to have my hand off the wheel for a bit and probably require me to look at what its doing even if its all just a bunch of buttons and knobs. Like what, change which folder I'm in? Change to a differe…

> Every car I've owned for over 20 years has been able to keep its climate consistent and comfortable without the need for me to make adjustments for months on end

This doesn’t work when sometimes the sun is shining and sometimes it isn’t.

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning: Fast Truck, Slow Computer

#149

Post by ajross »

namecheapTA wrote: post #111
LeoPanthera wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "thin blue line" flag is used almost exclusively by the far-right, and more specifically by white supremacists. The flag on the Lightning isn't that flag, but it does resemble it.

And here I was thinking it was used by people that appreciate their local police force and understand the stresses they are under.

If that were true, it would have arisen spontaneously and not been rolled out as countermessaging to a protest movement about police violence.

No, this is 100% a political symbol with partisan (though not strictly party-aligned) intent, not a celebration of law enforcement. I don't think it's helpful to call it "racist", but neither is it appropriate to pretend that this isn't at least in some sense a "Fuck BLM" symbol either.

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning: Fast Truck, Slow Computer

#150

Post by rootusrootus »

namecheapTA wrote: post #111
LeoPanthera wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "thin blue line" flag is used almost exclusively by the far-right, and more specifically by white supremacists. The flag on the Lightning isn't that flag, but it does resemble it.

And here I was thinking it was used by people that appreciate their local police force and understand the stresses they are under.

Every time I've seen that flag, it's next to a Lets Go Brandon sticker or a Gadsden flag or similar. If I heard someone claim it was to show support for their local police department, I'd expect to see them smirking as they said that.
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