Apple becomes first tech giant to explicitly ban caste discrimination • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple becomes first tech giant to explicitly ban caste discrimination

#581

Post by spaceman_2020 » Tue, Aug 16, 2022, 9:45 PM UTC

rajup wrote: post #532

mrtranscendence wrote: post #494

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you denying that the national government of India has taken a reactionary turn under the leadership of Modi?

Probably not, I do think the current government leans a bit more towards religious intolerance than co-existence. I do however take issue with bashing the government for every social justice issue du jour. It’s convenient but very distracting for all sides involved. For example GP here accuses the current government of caste intolerance. If you think about it though it doesn’t make much sense, given the Indian govern…

That’s precisely the problem: the current government has promoted blind pride in native (Hindu) culture but has never sought to promote any discussion on some of the flaws in that culture.

The Manusmriti, for instance, has been referenced and quoted by several ministers and politicians. Yet no one has addressed the deep casteism in it.

The government doesn’t promote casteism - I agree with that. But promoting Hindu pride without addressing some of its issues eventually gets you casteism.

Re: Apple becomes first tech giant to explicitly ban caste discrimination

#582

Post by elsonrodriguez » Tue, Aug 16, 2022, 9:54 PM UTC

rendall wrote: post #502

elsonrodriguez wrote: post #492

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This has been the case for a while. I've posted videos on here of white supremacists literally saying white people are a "superior bloodline", only to be met with "both sides" pedantry and apologetics. Part of this is because engineers tend to take devil's advocate positions as a matter of due diligence, but the other part is because of the metaphorical smoke that is this article and countless others showing systemic…

> I've posted videos on here of white supremacists literally saying white people are a "superior bloodline", only to be met with "both sides" pedantry and apologetics. Interesting. I'd like to read those threads. Can you post a link, please? As an aside, you know that all of our entire comment histories are browsable and searchable, right? I couldn't find them. https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=elsonrodriguez&n…

It was a while back, here's the thread:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30329147

Unfortunately you can also see a more extreme example of this from the person who was just banned in this thread:

>...These threads don’t exist and never have. The real whites that get attacked just say that they want their own country and culture to exist.

Me and the person making allusions to parler are probably just troubled by seeing these patterns in a community that at first glance seems egalitarian(and probably is compared to many others).

Re: Apple becomes first tech giant to explicitly ban caste discrimination

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Post by ummonk » Tue, Aug 16, 2022, 10:01 PM UTC

howinteresting wrote: post #253

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #70

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> there are lower caste groups in North India that look more "white" than upper caste groups in South India Definitions of race don’t require a skin-color gradient. Plenty of Asians are lighter skinned than white Mediterraneans.

Many people from the Mediterranean and the surrounding areas are white-passing people of color . They've been flattened by the official US race forms into "white", but that's not the same thing as actually being white in terms of day-to-day lived experience. See this book: https://www.amazon.com/Whitewashed-Americas-Invisible-Minori...

Someone who is truly white-passing should be considered a person of paleness, not a person of color, no? Like sure they're an ethnic minority but racial minority?

Re: Apple becomes first tech giant to explicitly ban caste discrimination

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Post by throwaway_1928 » Tue, Aug 16, 2022, 10:14 PM UTC

spaceman_2020 wrote: post #295

thorncorona wrote: post #272

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Do you know why this happened?

Religion, especially in public life, has made a big comeback under the current ruling party. This party is also generally considered an upper-caste party. I assume much of it is due to implicit soft support from the ruling establishment.

No post body was provided.

Re: Apple becomes first tech giant to explicitly ban caste discrimination

#585

Post by tablespoon » Tue, Aug 16, 2022, 10:43 PM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #540

tablespoon wrote: post #529

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> What about in the EU? You don't think there are people there enthusiastically discussing DEI? There probably are but: 1) I understand it's often thought of as an Americanism there, and 2) Europe doesn't have the same history, which would make its ground less fertile for it (white people are aboriginal there, and I understand there's little to no history of domestic radicalized slavery, etc.).

> white people are aboriginal there The Picts would like to have a word with you.

> The Picts would like to have a word with you.

Would they? All the pictures that come up on an image search are of white people with tattoos.

Re: Apple becomes first tech giant to explicitly ban caste discrimination

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Post by user_named » Tue, Aug 16, 2022, 10:56 PM UTC

lxxxvi wrote: post #571

fritztastic wrote: post #343

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Most likely they struggled because the legal language in policies was ambiguous on how to handle the situation, therefore opening the room for the manager to pursue action against the company for consequences for their behavior. It would have been dealt with sooner if the employee was white because (assuming they meant white as in western white skinned person) culturally there isn't an equivalent of caste that would…

> culturally there isn't an equivalent of caste that would make sense for a white person to act on Sure there is. People from English-speaking countries & Western Europeans vs "Eastern Europeans" and Latinos. Ignoring for a moment that using the term "Eastern Europe" is itself hugely problematic, though usually because of ignorance not racism, I have worked in one and heard of several examples where there were huge d…

At least the north Americans think so.

Re: Apple becomes first tech giant to explicitly ban caste discrimination

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Post by howinteresting » Tue, Aug 16, 2022, 11:10 PM UTC

jefftk wrote: post #466

howinteresting wrote: post #265

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If Jobs had grown up in (say) New England rather than California, there is no way he would be have been treated the same as white people there. He would have clearly stood out.

Really? Looking at some pictures of him when he was younger (ex: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Jobs#/media/File:Steve_J... ) I think he would have been lumped in with other white kids here.

It's hard to tell from a black and white photo.

Re: Apple becomes first tech giant to explicitly ban caste discrimination

#588

Post by howinteresting » Tue, Aug 16, 2022, 11:13 PM UTC

ummonk wrote: post #583

howinteresting wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many people from the Mediterranean and the surrounding areas are white-passing people of color . They've been flattened by the official US race forms into "white", but that's not the same thing as actually being white in terms of day-to-day lived experience. See this book: https://www.amazon.com/Whitewashed-Americas-Invisible-Minori...

Someone who is truly white-passing should be considered a person of paleness, not a person of color, no? Like sure they're an ethnic minority but racial minority?

I'm not knowledgeable enough to be able to draw that distinction, but what I can say is that several people close to me fit that description and look at themselves as white-passing PoC, due to the ways they've been treated as a separate group from European-origin white people.

Re: Apple becomes first tech giant to explicitly ban caste discrimination

#589

Post by howinteresting » Tue, Aug 16, 2022, 11:16 PM UTC

yywwbbn wrote: post #362

howinteresting wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many people from the Mediterranean and the surrounding areas are white-passing people of color . They've been flattened by the official US race forms into "white", but that's not the same thing as actually being white in terms of day-to-day lived experience. See this book: https://www.amazon.com/Whitewashed-Americas-Invisible-Minori...

Genes which are responsible for white skin were introduced to Europe by “immigrants” from the middle east. It’s a very diverse region due to groups of people moving in/out for thousands of years. So whatever label you try to attach to them you’ll find plenty of people for whom it makes no sense (e.g. there are groups of people whose ancestors lived in the Levant for at least thousands of years and amongst whom red ha…

Race and ethnicity are related but different things.

Re: Apple becomes first tech giant to explicitly ban caste discrimination

#590

Post by washbrain » Tue, Aug 16, 2022, 11:21 PM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #383

teakettle42 wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

DEI is intersectional praxis, not a “rebranding of the struggle for equality”

And intersectional praxis is, overwhelmingly, an ideology of white people. Most people in the individual groups (Muslims, Hispanics, etc.) are advocating for their own interests. It’s white people that subscribe to a theory that ties these completely different groups together.

Shit, all those queer black women who have been telling me that intersectionality is important because they experience unique struggles because they are at the intersection of multiple sets of traits have been doing so because it's popular with white folks?

Intersectionality is the idea that multiple identities intersect, and like the intersection in a Venn diagram, the overlap is a unique zone.