Crypto Geniuses Who Vaporized a Trillion Dollars • Hacker News Board

Re: Crypto Geniuses Who Vaporized a Trillion Dollars

#41

Post by ncmncm » Tue, Aug 16, 2022, 7:05 PM UTC

misiti3780 wrote: post #39

ncmncm wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some reasonable multiple of actual net revenue. Not to zero, anyway. Soon electric cars will not be a novelty, and Tesla's poor build quality, poor reliability, and poor repairability will start to be remarked upon.

"Soon electric cars will not be a novelty" We are years away from that happening. And someone is going to have to start producing a lot more batteries before it happens. "Tesla's poor build quality, poor reliability, and poor repairability will start to be remarked upon." Where numbers are you referencing here. Just because a few loud people on the internet complain about these things doesnt mean it endemic. Is it no…

Consumer Reports put Teslas at the very bottom of their reliability ratings.

Every professional car reviewer remarks on their poor "fit and finish".

The number of people complaining that Tesla quoted them repair estimates for relatively minor failures exceeding the resale value of the car is disturbingly large.

Re: Crypto Geniuses Who Vaporized a Trillion Dollars

#42

Post by coralreef » Wed, Aug 17, 2022, 12:43 AM UTC

jqpabc123 wrote: post #40

coralreef wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because you can clone Facebook doesn’t mean you get a valuable user base

Crypto is much easier to clone than Facebook --- as evidenced by the fact they are multiplying like rabbits. The only thing restraining the creation of crypto is the fact that it is virtually unusable as an actual currency. If it were otherwise, every celebrity, politician and corporation would just mint their own continuous stream of the stuff. There is nothing to stop them. Productive work would become obsolete. Wh…

Creating something doesn’t automatically make it valuable.

You’re failing to realize that value is socially derived.

Re: Crypto Geniuses Who Vaporized a Trillion Dollars

#43

Post by jqpabc123 » Wed, Aug 17, 2022, 3:33 AM UTC

coralreef wrote: post #42

jqpabc123 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Crypto is much easier to clone than Facebook --- as evidenced by the fact they are multiplying like rabbits. The only thing restraining the creation of crypto is the fact that it is virtually unusable as an actual currency. If it were otherwise, every celebrity, politician and corporation would just mint their own continuous stream of the stuff. There is nothing to stop them. Productive work would become obsolete. Wh…

Creating something doesn’t automatically make it valuable. You’re failing to realize that value is socially derived.

You’re failing to realize that value is socially derived.

You're failing to realize that lots of people/companies have a larger social presence than Satoshi Nakamoto and are thus in a much stronger position to derive value from their own crypto.

But most of these have had the good sense thus far to avoid crypto scams due to the potential legal issues. Kim Kardashian being one example of a prominent exception.

https://decrypt.co/106533/kim-kardashian-ethereum-max-dismis...

Re: Crypto Geniuses Who Vaporized a Trillion Dollars

#44

Post by As_You_Wish » Wed, Aug 17, 2022, 5:42 AM UTC

traveler01 wrote: post #12

coralreef wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even better: being able to create money out of thin air…oh wait.

Isn't that what the federal reserve is being doing for the last decades?

Yes, but at least greenbacks are backed by real stuff. Backed by the USA, all the millions of workers, the US military, goods being produced, etc. Can a national currency be wiped out? Sure, through mismanagement. BUT, that does not negate the fact that the US dollar is backed by a whole lot of actual assets.

Crypto is backed by nothing. Nothing.

Re: Crypto Geniuses Who Vaporized a Trillion Dollars

#45

Post by As_You_Wish » Wed, Aug 17, 2022, 5:50 AM UTC

ncmncm wrote: post #28

misiti3780 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this comment will not age well ... at the currently stock price of 900 dollars.

You are correct: as soon as people get wise to Tesla's actual competitive position in the car business, share price will collapse. After that time, predictions of collapse will instead refer to past activity, and its subsequent future will be less predictable.

To be fair, I remember a long time ago that Musk said that he was creating the electric car to force other car companies to create electric cars, in order to help with climate change and all that.

I specifically remember reading that while he wants the business to succeed, he would consider it a success if he got all the other car companies to go electric and he went out of business. Not that he would want to go out of business.

I don't know how old you all are, but I remember when it first started, I thought it would go all John Delorean and be out of business in one or two years, and lo and behold all this time later. So I'm impressed. The guy is actually trying to do shit, as opposed to Jeff Bezos who all he is doing is attempting to ape Musk with the spaceship (what's happening with that now), and buying a $150 million Los Angeles mansion and making a massive yacht, and divorcing his beautiful wife and going out with that clown-faced nasty looking woman. $200 billion and she's the best he could do???

Bill Gates with his billions is just jerking off too. What's he doing?

Re: Crypto Geniuses Who Vaporized a Trillion Dollars

#46

Post by ncmncm » Wed, Aug 17, 2022, 1:46 PM UTC

Akronymus wrote: post #14

benj111 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is Tesla an actual con though? Sure it's over valued. And self driving is being over sold. And many announced products appear to be vapourware. And the CEO is. Well. But it is an actual business, bringing in actual money, and the money appears to be correctly accounted for.

A con has to have some intention to be a con. For example, many are calling star citizen a cons/scam. But IMO the intention to scam people just isn't there. So, no, I wouldn't say tesla is a con.

Many cons don't start out as cons. Even Theranos was originally meant to be legitimate. Enterprises turn into cons in preference to folding immediately, often with hope of no longer being a con, someday soon.

Re: Crypto Geniuses Who Vaporized a Trillion Dollars

#47

Post by coralreef » Wed, Aug 17, 2022, 2:55 PM UTC

jqpabc123 wrote: post #43

coralreef wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Creating something doesn’t automatically make it valuable. You’re failing to realize that value is socially derived.

You’re failing to realize that value is socially derived. You're failing to realize that lots of people/companies have a larger social presence than Satoshi Nakamoto and are thus in a much stronger position to derive value from their own crypto. But most of these have had the good sense thus far to avoid crypto scams due to the potential legal issues. Kim Kardashian being one example of a prominent exception. https:/…

Corporations generally avoid creating cryptocurrencies because of the immense regulation and legal work they would have to do. And because banking regulation and compliance is generally out of their wheelhouse. Facebook tried it with their fiat basket backed stable coin.

Re: Crypto Geniuses Who Vaporized a Trillion Dollars

#48

Post by jqpabc123 » Wed, Aug 17, 2022, 4:37 PM UTC

coralreef wrote: post #47

jqpabc123 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re failing to realize that value is socially derived. You're failing to realize that lots of people/companies have a larger social presence than Satoshi Nakamoto and are thus in a much stronger position to derive value from their own crypto. But most of these have had the good sense thus far to avoid crypto scams due to the potential legal issues. Kim Kardashian being one example of a prominent exception. https:/…

Corporations generally avoid creating cryptocurrencies because of the immense regulation and legal work they would have to do. And because banking regulation and compliance is generally out of their wheelhouse. Facebook tried it with their fiat basket backed stable coin.

Crypto isn't regulated at the current time --- at least not in the USA.

However, the fact it isn't regulated doesn't mean they can't be sued in civil court for running a scam. This is what they are really afraid of --- see Kim Kardashian for an example.

This is why crypto bros tend to hide their identify (Satoshi) or re-locate outside the USA and go into hiding once the scam collapses (the guys from 3AC).

BOTTOM LINE: Selling electrons as money from your momma's basement is a shady business in more ways than one. Participate at your own risk.

Re: Crypto Geniuses Who Vaporized a Trillion Dollars

#49

Post by FabHK » Wed, Aug 17, 2022, 5:11 PM UTC

traveler01 wrote: post #13

jqpabc123 wrote: post #2

crypto is a game of creating virtual fortunes out of thin air and convincing other humans with traditional forms of money that those virtual fortunes deserve to be real-world ones. The ultimate con --- selling virtual bridges made of electrons to rubes who had been convinced that their powers of observation were superior to all those others who just didn't "get it".

Cryptocurrencies are the sympton of the population distrust towards central banks and governments who are very irresponsible when controlling the money. I mean, look at the Covid-19 pandemic. They irresponsibly stopped the entire economy, printed a buttload of money out of thin air and now are "struggling" to fight the resulting inflaction. Well, they aren't struggling with anything, it's you, me, the average Joe tha…

> distrust towards central banks and governments who are very irresponsible when controlling the money

Where does this distrust come from? Central Banks have been running QE for ages (the Fed since the GFC 2008, BoJ even earlier), and inflation has been fine for decades (too low, rather).

Now, in exceptional circumstances (pandemic and war and supply chain problems due to those and fiscal easing) there's a short spike of inflation that's brought inflation averaged over a decade just a tad over the 2% goal. Where's the "irresponsibility"?

Re: Crypto Geniuses Who Vaporized a Trillion Dollars

#50

Post by coralreef » Wed, Aug 17, 2022, 6:41 PM UTC

As_You_Wish wrote: post #44

traveler01 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't that what the federal reserve is being doing for the last decades?

Yes, but at least greenbacks are backed by real stuff. Backed by the USA, all the millions of workers, the US military, goods being produced, etc. Can a national currency be wiped out? Sure, through mismanagement. BUT, that does not negate the fact that the US dollar is backed by a whole lot of actual assets. Crypto is backed by nothing. Nothing.

You misuse the word “backed”. The US economy does not “back” the dollar, figuratively or literally.

America, it’s workers, corporations, military, etc., will happily abandon the dollar should it become necessary. No one wants to be paid in money undergoing massive devaluation.