Using the same Arch Linux installation for a decade • Hacker News Board

Re: Using the same Arch Linux installation for a decade

#201

Post by WfAjWDYpDHDYCN5 » Tue, Aug 16, 2022, 6:50 PM UTC

Bolkan wrote: post #136

dj_mc_merlin wrote: post #36

The best thing about the rolling releases is that the OS feels ageless. If I leave a Thinkpad sitting in a corner for 3 years and boot it up again to pacman -Syu, it will have basically the same software as my modern Thinkpad. This just tickles my sense of "this is how the computer _should_ behave".

And all the data in your `~/.config`, `~/.cache` will still be in the old format. Linux programs are notoriously bad at handling that kind of things. There is no local data update api like the one provided by android sdk.

s/Linux //

Windows isn't any better. I don't have enough Mac experience but I doubt it has some magic bullet.

Re: Using the same Arch Linux installation for a decade

#202

Post by wyclif » Tue, Aug 16, 2022, 6:50 PM UTC

sam_lowry_ wrote: post #95

Skunkleton wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would like to defend arch here. In my experience, Arch's main focus is on upholding a simple consistent architecture. There are tools that do something like the bare minimum required work, and then excellent documentation so that the end user can correctly perform the remaining required work manually (or via their own scripts). As a result, there are certain features that will probably never be implemented. For exa…

>Arch's main focus is on upholding a simple consistent architecture I though it is all about doing it the upstream way.

That's the flip side of the coin.

Re: Using the same Arch Linux installation for a decade

#203

Post by evh » Tue, Aug 16, 2022, 6:51 PM UTC

malermeister wrote: post #16

valbaca wrote: post #3

Exhibiting the self discipline to not distro-hop in 10 years is more commendable...but I guess that's Arch Linux for you.

Yeah Arch is basically the final destination all that distro hopping gets you to. No reason to hop once you've arrived.

s/Arch/Gentoo/

I did run Arch for a while around 2010 but it didn't take. It's nice to find a permanent home - I've been on Gentoo since 2013 and an acquaintance has been on Slackware since the 90s.

Those three seems to be where us tinkerers end up.

Re: Using the same Arch Linux installation for a decade

#204

Post by jklinger410 » Tue, Aug 16, 2022, 6:53 PM UTC

The issue isn't so much whether a person can keep an arch install stable, it's whether arch is stable for most people, most of the time.

As modern hardware and DE choices change and conflict, arch has to be manually tweaked to stay working. Those tweaks (aka config choices) are essentially the entire purpose of a normal distro.

Arch isn't designed to do the tweaks. It's just that simple.

Saying you kept arch running is either a brag about how well you manage it, how minimalist your environment is, or how simple your hardware is. Not to mention whether your needs drive you to try any of the edgier stuff.

Congrats to this guy though.

Re: Using the same Arch Linux installation for a decade

#205

Post by WfAjWDYpDHDYCN5 » Tue, Aug 16, 2022, 6:53 PM UTC

maxnoe wrote: post #111

dj_mc_merlin wrote: post #36

The best thing about the rolling releases is that the OS feels ageless. If I leave a Thinkpad sitting in a corner for 3 years and boot it up again to pacman -Syu, it will have basically the same software as my modern Thinkpad. This just tickles my sense of "this is how the computer _should_ behave".

I would be very surprised if pacman -Syu worked after three years of no upgrades. That's generally not supported and will require manual interactions.

That's what I was thinking. Good luck getting all the random crap you have installed to update without choking on EOL'd packages, or various packages that have new config formats, or changes to the updater itself, or apps which only support version-at-a-time migrations (or otherwise don't include the full history needed to migrate)...

Re: Using the same Arch Linux installation for a decade

#206

Post by jakswa » Tue, Aug 16, 2022, 6:54 PM UTC

maxnoe wrote: post #111

dj_mc_merlin wrote: post #36

The best thing about the rolling releases is that the OS feels ageless. If I leave a Thinkpad sitting in a corner for 3 years and boot it up again to pacman -Syu, it will have basically the same software as my modern Thinkpad. This just tickles my sense of "this is how the computer _should_ behave".

I would be very surprised if pacman -Syu worked after three years of no upgrades. That's generally not supported and will require manual interactions.

Broke for me after a month or so on one laptop. Had to stop whatever I was doing and learn a bit how pacman and PGP keys interact or something.

Re: Using the same Arch Linux installation for a decade

#207

Post by atleta » Tue, Aug 16, 2022, 6:55 PM UTC

I've had that with a Debian desktop (for over a decade). My current OS on my laptop is Ubuntu, which I also installed a decade ago. Though something went really wrong with an upgrade about 5 years ago, so I had to reinstall. (Keeping all the data, of course.)

The only problem (with both debian and ubuntu) is that these old installs tend to drift from what a fresh install would be. And that the GNOME guys keep removing features I use with every release and then it takes a few months (sometimes a year) until someone adds it back as an extension (which will be broken with the next release, for sure).

Re: Using the same Arch Linux installation for a decade

#208

Post by alin23 » Tue, Aug 16, 2022, 6:56 PM UTC

axby wrote: post #190

alin23 wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the Command Tab issue, I created rcmd to fix it: https://lowtechguys.com/rcmd It became really annoying to press tab 5 times just to get to the app I need. If you’re interested in technical writings, I recently wrote about my journey to creating rcmd here: https://alinpanaitiu.com/blog/window-switcher-app-store/ The dock stops being a problem once you set it to automatically hide and find ways to use the mouse le…

Thanks, this looks great. I'll definitely read this later. But why doesn't the base macbook install support more of these features? I was led to believe (perhaps incorrectly) that I wouldn't have to tinker with a mac as much as I have with Linux. (I suppose that fine tuning keyboard shortcuts is very different from trying to desperately fix a video or wireless driver) I assumed that apple optimized for a good user ex…

Indeed, power users are not really what Apple optimizes for. They try to dumb everything down, and it helps them in their ultimate goal: get more market share.

You've actually stumbled upon the least configurable components of macOS: the Window Manager, and the Desktop Environment.

On Linux you can choose your own, and you have so many different paradigms. I still miss i3 wm..

On macOS you don't have this choice, and you have to use apps to get to the workflow you need.

I was a Windows power user for a few years, and now I use both Linux and macOS daily since 6 years ago. In the end, I feel more productive on macOS nowadays, mostly because there are many quality apps to get anything I want done, I don't have to worry that basic OS function will stop working when I update some dependency, and there are some macOS-native features that really improved my workflow.

For example I didn't know how useful Live Text would be until the first time I noticed that Command-F search in Safari also searches text in images, or when I double clicked on a phone number and I could just call it with my iPhone (which was in another room) but keep talking from the MacBook.

I can't even imagine how I would do that on Linux (surely doable, but nothing beats "already done and usable"), and it's just one of many features like that.

I will end with some more software recommendations: yabai for window management (https://github.com/koekeishiya/yabai) and skhd for hotkeys (https://github.com/koekeishiya/skhd)

They are more Linux-like, using config files, free and easy to forget they aren't native.

Re: Using the same Arch Linux installation for a decade

#209

Post by WfAjWDYpDHDYCN5 » Tue, Aug 16, 2022, 6:56 PM UTC

janci wrote: post #119

Jnr wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I don't need Windows for gaming, I just boot the physical windows partition from Linux using Virtualbox. This way I don't even have to hibernate and interrupt any work.

Isn't windows "Installing new hardware" every time you boot? And the license is still active? I was always affraid it will break the system after few switches between virtual and bare-metal boot.

Nah, when Windows installs new hardware it doesn't uninstall the old hardware. Good luck on the license front though, since Microsoft has decided you can't move around the item you purchased from them...

Re: Using the same Arch Linux installation for a decade

#210

Post by d_tr » Tue, Aug 16, 2022, 6:59 PM UTC

WfAjWDYpDHDYCN5 wrote: post #197

superduperuser wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being that Arch is maintained with arch users in mind[0], building an installer for that user base would have to entail a wide range of option for unique use cases because that's whats expected of their users[1]. There isn't a "cop-out" or "plea" to users outside of the community because it was never a goal to appease them. [0] https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Arch_Linux#User_centrality [1] https://wiki.archlinux.org…

No, it wouldn't, because that versatility can be attained by... not using the installer, the exact same as the situation without an installer . An installer, if anything, improves "user centrality" because you're making it more accessible and usable to most users with just the most common few options. Not having an installer improves "dev centrality" (the few users who matter are the devs and other advanced users), o…

At the end of the day, as others have probably already said in this thread, the maintainers are unpaid volunteers and choose to focus on certain things for their own reasons and using their finite resources.

There are other distributions that focus on other things and people can choose. If Arch chose to implement lots of convenience functions, that choice could be to the detriment of other strong aspects of the distribution.