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Apple becomes first tech giant to explicitly ban caste discrimination

indiatoday.in

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Re: Apple becomes first tech giant to explicitly ban caste discrimination

#511

Post by googlryas »

cortesoft wrote: post #440
anoonmoose wrote: post #419

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A tautology I suppose, but, because you can't change them. You didn't choose it and it's immutable. Not fair to discriminate against someone for something they can't control. This is, of course, personal opinion of mine.

I get why you shouldn't discriminate against things you can't change, but I am wondering why there shouldn't also be things you can't discriminate based on that you CAN change. Religion is a good example of one... people can and do change religions, but we still shouldn't discriminate based on it. There are other examples as well of things that people can change that shouldn't be discriminated based on.

I agree completely, this is why I think the pro-gay "It's not a choice, I was born this way" argument is misguided. Even if being gay was 100% a lifestyle choice - there is still nothing wrong with it, and no one should give you any shit for it!

Re: Apple becomes first tech giant to explicitly ban caste discrimination

#512

Post by sreevisakh »

adamsmark wrote: post #276

How hard is it to fake being of a higher caste?

Really hard. There are so many caste markers. Surnames are the least of it. Speaking accent, diet, clothing and several other habits can some among them. Even worse, people who believe in castes are part-time detectives who often do background checks on others. At least, that's the case in India. I don't know how bad it is in the US - but I'm sure there will be some.

Re: Apple becomes first tech giant to explicitly ban caste discrimination

#513

Post by sreevisakh »

lowbloodsugar wrote: post #420

Why isn’t caste discrimination already covered by race discrimination laws?

Probably because the perpetrator and victim often belong to the same race. Besides, it's hard even to prove that discrimination occurred. The usual strategy is to put lower caste people in no-win situations and blame them for the failure.

Re: Apple becomes first tech giant to explicitly ban caste discrimination

#514

Post by aaaaaaaaaaab »

boplicity wrote: post #355
aaaaaaaaaaab wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I slap you from the left, do I “correct” this by slapping you from the right? Or how about I stop slapping you?

I don't see how correcting a problem is violence. It's more like giving a kid a cookie when they didn't get one. Sure, the other kids will want to keep getting all the cookies, but that's not right, no matter how much they complain.

Except it’s not the same kids. The kids who used to get all the cookies have already grown up. You’re punishing different individuals, just because they have the same skin color as someone who had unfair advantages in the past.

Re: Apple becomes first tech giant to explicitly ban caste discrimination

#515

Post by Gorbzel »

kevinmchugh wrote: post #170
yardie wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not Indian American my origins are Caribbean but I have some Indian origins and can offer a few answers from my experience. > Is this something that comes up in conversation among Indians? It starts casually with "where are you from?" and the questions get more invasive. > Do names tend to correlate to you caste? In India, yes it does family name is derived from caste. I had some friends adopt English names to ge…

NB: "where are you from?" is a question your HR training should already explicitly tell people not to ask candidates. I'm not in HR or management and I still make sure to mention it to new hires before doing my first interview alongside them. National origin is a protected class. Even within the US , "where are you from?" can proxy for a protected class. Race, mostly, or possibly religion. It's also a question that's…

Ugh, this is a classic example of skewed logic going way too far before the underlying truth can catch up.

I am in tech management (also a recovering attorney) who routinely conducts interviews, and it is perfectly acceptable to ask where someone is from in a professional setting.

The unacceptable part, as OP at least hints at, is using the response as a proxy for some other verboten criteria or perhaps to kickoff an overly intrusive line of questioning.

These behaviors are odious on their own and why HR should be explicit in training against antipatterns, not spreading meaningless FUD which miss the point and permit bad habits to foster elsewhere.

It’s really inane that modern software recruiting claims to focus on getting a proper picture of the whole candidate , yet untrained interviewers counterfeit the whole endeavor thinking they’re politically correct because they’re afraid to ask anything but the same broken whiteboard questions.

Re: Apple becomes first tech giant to explicitly ban caste discrimination

#516

Post by tshaddox »

ZeroGravitas wrote: post #461
tshaddox wrote: post #431

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure why laws about protected classes would be directly relevant in the case described in the top-level comment here, which is a manager who "was pretty much dismissive of everything anyone of a lower caste did / wouldn't communicate with them effectively." That just sounds like an ordinary problem with basic job performance. Surely most company policies would have ways of handling employees who are just blat…

The history of employment law suggests this is not the case. See for example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Country_(film) > Josey quickly befriends several other female workers at the mine and soon realizes the women are constant targets for sexual harassment and humiliation by most of their male co-workers, who, like Hank, believe the women are taking jobs more appropriate for men. The union in real life was…

I didn't mean to express confidence that all or nearly all companies actually do have reasonable policies that are well enforced (but I see how my comment could be interpreted that way). I am not at all surprised that many companies are dreadful environments like the company in that lawsuit. What I meant is that it's not reasonable to hold companies only to the standard of legally protected classes. That's a good standard, of course, but a very low bar.

Re: Apple becomes first tech giant to explicitly ban caste discrimination

#518

Post by kasey_junk »

tptacek wrote: post #424
rayiner wrote: post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any such policy at a California company run by white people is either spearheaded by white progressives, or adopted to appease them, and reflects what they consider acceptable versus unacceptable discrimination. Ordinarily, discrimination by and between minorities is swept under the rug in such circles. So a policy that views Indians as capable of being oppressors is a significant.

Just so I'm clear here, your argument is that any policy a California tech company adopts to prohibit discrimination based on caste must either have been spearheaded by progressives --- a political ideology you have contempt for --- or adopted to appease them?

His statement is more specific than that. He said white progressives. So if an Indian progressive worked on the policy they did it to appease some other person, not because they believe in its progressive value.

Re: Apple becomes first tech giant to explicitly ban caste discrimination

#519

Post by sreevisakh »

hurril wrote: post #172
causi wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Teacher beats their son to death and then offers them three grand. Jesus christ.

Ugh, this makes me genuinely... I was going to say sad, but... I don't think I have a word for this.

The post just shows one recent event. If that makes you upset, then I suggest that you don't go searching for it. That's for the sake of your sanity.

Re: Apple becomes first tech giant to explicitly ban caste discrimination

#520

Post by pc86 »

sreevisakh wrote: post #486
pc86 wrote: post #408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My understanding is that non-Indians are simply outside the caste system entirely. So to the extent that there are Indians who view themselves as better than non-Indians, that's less caste discrimination and more good old fashioned racism.

Do you know of any Indians who treat all non-Indians as inferior? My understanding is that non-Indians are judged based on their skin color. That is most certainly racism, but not based on nationality. Another thing that puzzles me is how you differentiate caste discrimination from racism. The underlying motivations are different. But the treatment, politics and tactics used are almost the same in both cases. I'm cur…

Personally I think they're the same - equally abhorrent, and people who act that way should be shunned from the industry entirely (there's a comment I made I think a week ago saying basically the same thing).

Legally though, racism == illegal discrimination while caste discrimination == legal discrimination.

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